WWJD: Chandler church is ‘Bringing Sexy Back’

sexy sermons
A king-size bed with a silky spread dominated the church’s stage. A sign outside the sanctuary doors warned, “PG-13. Parents strongly cautioned: Some content may not be suitable for all children.”

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”
—2 Timothy 4:3

“But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.”
—1 Corinthians 8:9

It was Week 3 of the six-week “Bringing Sexy Back” worship service series at Cornerstone Christian Fellowship Church in Chandler. More than 1,000 were packed into the 5 p.m. Sunday service to hear “What Every Woman Ought to Know” from author Shaunti Feldhahn.

For 45 minutes, she shared research she had done on men, including their fixations on pornography, their own need to be desired by their wives and men’s deep love for their wives that they struggle to express.

“Your sexual desire for your husband profoundly affects his sense of well-being and confidence in all areas of his life,” Feldhahn told host Ron Merrell, Cornerstone’s teaching pastor in a Q&A session. She insisted that 98 percent of men said their goal is not to have all the sex they can get, but “a feeling of wanting to be wanted, wanting to be desired. That is what really mattered.”

Using both a commissioned national survey and her own extensive interviews with men, she said a man is so “visually wired” that images of the women they see go into a “mental Rolodex of images stretching all the way back to his teenage years, and any one of the pictures is going to pop up at any time in his brain without warning.”

Since Senior Pastor Linn Winters introduced the series Aug. 12, weekend attendance at first four and now five services per weekend has climbed to past 6,500, or about 2,000 more than average. The series is promoted with an edgy Web site — www.howsexyami.com — and a Loop 202 billboard showing two sets of feet projecting from under bed covers.

“Our church has always been kind of a risk-taking church,” said the 27-year pastor, noting that people of other churches have told him his series is inappropriate, that “a church has no business talking about this, and they think it is some sort of a gimmick to get people in. They hate our sign. They think our sign is over the top.”

Need for the series came from within the church.

The church’s counselors told Winters they were noticing a “common thread in marriages” — pornography and infidelity — as they talked to couples. “We began to self-assess to see what really was going on.” They learned “there really was a significant number of families in our church who are struggling with pornography and with infidelity.” They began research, and Winters said he was astounded that Chandler was listed No. 4 in the nation for accessing “porn,” “sex” and “XXX” on search engines, according to a monitoring company that tracks Internet searches. “I don’t know why,” he said. “I was stunned.”

Winters learned a Granger, Ind., church had done a five-week series, “Pure Sex,” with an accompanying Web site — www.mylamesexlife.com — in February 2006 which first introduced the two sets of feet as part of the publicity. The response at that megachurch was huge, he said.

“We decided that was the same tact we needed to take,” he said. “They made a ton of stuff available to us.”

While adults are hearing about fantasies, women’s needs and men’s sexual wiring, the children coming to church are in a children’s center getting age-appropriate teaching tied to the six-week series. Meanwhile, Cornerstone is offering eight fall classes and gatherings on such topics as “Valiant Men, “Intimate Issues” and “Every Woman’s Battle.”

Winters, who has been married to his wife, Lisa, for 25 years and has a grown son, is preaching for most of the series. On Aug. 19, he talked frankly to men and had a silver sport convertible on stage to press his message. “I think the men have squirmed more than the women during the series,” he said.

“We say that God intended sex to be more than just two bodies rubbing together,” Winters said. “We have said when you look at pornography, we know there is more going on than just looking during that moment.”

Some weekends, the church’s wide stage features both the king-size bed and a small bed. “One analogy we use back and forth is that the world is really offering ‘little bed sex,’” Winters said. “The world really comes and says, ‘These are two bodies rubbing together’ and that is all it really is at the end of the day.”

But God, he said, intended that when men and women share a bed, their souls come together. “God says that when we begin to honor the soulishness of the sexual encounter, all of a sudden this thing changes and becomes what we describe as ‘big bed sex.’”

“We talk to people about what does that look like for a man to invite a woman, not to the ‘little bed’ but instead to invite her to the ‘big bed,’” Winter said. “What we have said over and over is that every woman longs to be invited to the big bed — but only a man can make the big bed.”

By the way, the king-size bed is being given away in a drawing Sept. 15 to all who attend the newly added Saturday service at 6 p.m.

“The world offers a little bed,” Winters said. “God offers big bed sex.”

  1. jen-o, 30 August, 2007

    i saw this article yesterday and couldn’t believe it was on the front page!… perhaps they needed more publicity than their billboard affords… well, i’m sure that plenty of people will flock to their lukewarm church to hear this new social/sex gospel complete with props…

    since when is the gospel rated PG-13?… and since when is it necessary to warn parents that some of the content of the gospel may not be suitable for their children???

    oh yeah, since the gospel has become ANOTHER gospel…

    this is NOT the gospel of Jesus Christ!

    (is this what some people are calling a revival?… people flocking to lukewarm churches to hear another gospel… (gag)…)

  2. Scott L., 30 August, 2007

    Hey Jen-o

    Let’s not jump to conclusions. Tho I don’t agree with the billboard action, I do agree with the the content of what the pastor was talking about.

    Our society is highly sexed. And it is so overwhelming that it effects alot of christians, it is definetly one of satans best tools, especially towards men.
    I don’t know how the pastor is teaching on these subjects of sex and marriage, but what better place to teach this gift that God has given to a husband and wife and especially to the teenagers of these days.

    Check out the divorce rate in the church today. Satan is at work dear sister and if he can make the church inaffective by using sex as a deterent to the Gospel he will. That was one of the best things about Promise Keepers, men being accountable to men in this area of our lives, satan knows our weakness and yes we need to be men of God and purity, but did not David fall to this temptation? and yes we need to be self controled, but there are times you can’t help that proverbial bird from flying around your head.

    I feel the Pastors are responsible to teach proper sex from the pulpit, and parents to teach there kids without embarresment what God’s word say’s about sex, hey, the song of solomen wasn’t put in the word, just to be a poem. Our society today is high sexed, and addiction to pornagraphy is, and can be a very secret sin, it can be hid for a long time, and it will damage the very best of a Godly man if they feel that they are alone in the battle. It is important that this subject be taught in the church right along side of homosexuality and the devistation it can cause.

    I could go on about the devistation of sexual addiction, it’s SIN! know matter how you look at it, but it is also a bondage to the flesh, just like any other form of addiction. But people need to know that there is hope. And maybe, just maybe that this Pastor is doing what God has called him to do.

    Remember look who is reporting the piece! the Tribune.

    This is another subject that hits to the core of my heart. If the message of the gospel is presented along side of the teaching, than it’s a good thing, but if it is just to draw a crowd than this pastor is wrong and God will not be mocked. Yes, it is a sensitive subject but if it would have been taught the way God had intended it to be from the pulpit long ago, instead of being dirty or it’s something we just don’t talk about, than maybe it would not have been an issue for the believer today. Just maybe if the church would have backed-up Anita Bryant and Jerry Falwell this wouldn’t be a problem for us today.

    We as the church need to turn our world upside down. Yes, the Gospel is the most important part of hope to those that are lost, especially to those caught up in some sort of addiction, they are filling a void, they need a replacement and it is Jesus. Than after that need is met then they need to mature in Christ, they need to be equipped and if teaching the correct use of sex than so be it.
    The church has been silent way to long on this subject.

    Re-read the article, look at what Pastor Linn is saying. If advertisement can us a sexual inuendo to intice you to there product, even if it’s just toothpaste, than maybe a little shock value of this billboard is not a bad idea. I know the mind of man, if he is a sex addict than just maybe this might draw him or her into this teaching to here the truth and hear the gospel. Hey, whats that other cliche’ “lets not throw the baby out with the bath water”

    Be discerning about what the media is presenting, sometimes they are blind to what God is wanting to do and they might print something that is positive, that was meant to be negative. Romans 8:28.

    I know I might get flack, but I will challenge any dialogue with anybody on this subject. In love of course.

    IN CHRIST

    Scott

  3. Lance Gilman, 30 August, 2007

    I can definitely see the reason to put a PG-13 rating on the topic they are
    teaching on because it really is just that, a topical study about the sexlife of a couple not necessarily a bible study.

    I do think however that the church faces an uphill battle as we see divorce and worldliness being so entrenched in our culture and in our churches.
    I think we are in great peril and primed for the falling away, if it was not for God’s amazing grace and mighty hand that will not let go we’d all have been washed up by now. Forgive me for being presumptuous – speaking for myself, at least I know I would have been.

  4. RRL, 31 August, 2007

    I just read the article about this church and what they are teaching this month and really amid all the controversy over the content I think it is great that they are teaching on real issues that men and women struggle with. I would say right on. Most people dont want to be convicted for their sins and I would assume all the ones that are saying it is not biblical haven’t read Gods word. He wants Sex to be between a husband and wife and I think even teaching age appropriate text to the kids in this church is a great Idea.

    How many times did I hear as a child “dont have sex until you are married” But no one EVER explained the reasons why. They focused on the you can get a disease aspect but never once did I hear someone say that the other devistating issue with not remaining pure for your husband or wife is that the “diseases” don’t just affect your physical being. No one said that having the “knowledge” of another man or womans body can be equally as painful to your mind and spirit, and that everytime you are intimate with your spouse that satan will flash vivid pictures in your mind and heart about any other person you have been with (real, imagined or a picture of what you have seen on the internet). Yes, you can be forgiven through the blood that Jesus Christ shed on that cross for your sins of impurity, but satan does not forget your struggles. He is the master manipulator and will use any means he can to condem you.

    I think too many people shy away from the bigger issues and all they want is to go to church to “feel good” and to not make a change in their lives. I think it is great what this church is doing. So make the people be uncomfortable in their seats. Teach them what God wants them to know. We would all be a little better if churches would take a stand to preach that needs to be heard and not what the masses WANT to hear.

  5. Peregrina, 31 August, 2007

    Okay, so these things need to be brought up, but wouldn’t they be better discussed in a small group setting?

  6. jen-o, 31 August, 2007

    hi scott!

    well, this may be one of those instances where 2 sicilians are going to butt heads (LOL)…

    i did mosey on over to this church’s website and take a quick peek at what they were about… i noticed a couple of odd things in the pastor’s blog (ex. a focus on good works, and encouragement to pray “strategically, tactically, & logistically)… i thought perhaps i could find some inexpensive spanish bibles in their bookstore, but no luck there (although i did see they had “catholic” spanish bibles for sale)…

    i see that they also have what they call “the mine” which is a weekly bible study (currently focusing on the book of romans)… so in my opinion, if they want to teach about marriage and sex from a biblical perspective, why don’t they teach it in their weekly bible study and teach romans to the whole congregation on sundays….

    scott, i agree with you that we live in a highly sexed society and pornography is everywhere… but i disagree that focusing on the details of the problem is beneficial… i don’t want to listen to a guest speaker talk about national surveys and her “own extensive interviews with men”… i don’t want to hear about other people’s “fantasies,” nor do i want to hear about “men’s sexual wiring” and “women’s needs” (women need Jesus)… i certainly don’t want my kids getting the “age-appropriate” version of these ideas… and i definitely don’t want to look at a king size bed with silky sheets on stage…

    i think this whole 6 part series entitled “bringing sexy back” reeks of GIMMICK… from the king-size bed with silky sheets on stage, to their billboard depicting a couple under the sheets, to their promotional website called “how sexy am i .com”, to the language they use in their promotion of the series, to the silver sport convertible they put on stage one week, to the raffle of the king-size bed… it’s all about gimmicks!…

    a biblical perspective of marriage and sex does not need to be promoted in this manner… which makes me wonder if they are truly teaching a biblical perspective or not… i’m guessing NOT… i think they are bringing the world’s ideas about marriage and sex into the church (via national surveys, personal interviews, “fantasies”, “sexual wiring”, etc. etc.)

    i don’t want to go to church and hear about “big bed sex” VS “little bed sex”… and i definitely would NOT want my kids listening to this stuff in church… they hear enough of it in the world…

    let me also say this: there are a lot of single people in the church… why would they need to hear about marriage and sex for 6 weeks… i am one of those single people… i have been a single parent for 12 years… i have made a deliberate decision to NOT remarry… i have been celibate for years and do not date… why would i want to listen to this kind of stuff and stir up any feelings that i have deliberately allowed to die… i am not the only person like this; there are plenty of us out here… i work in an office with 3 other single mothers who have the same mindset… i would NEVER invite them to a church service that taught a series like this… that is a stumbling block for many single people… why would i want a pastor to awaken sexual feelings by focusing on sex and “fantasies”… (i gotta say that just blows me away that they talk about “sexual fantasies” in church)….

    if people have a problem in their marriages, or a problem with pornography and infidelity, let them get individual counseling… (i don’t want to hear about it nor do i need to hear about it… it’s none of my business)… i mean, alcoholism is a problem, too… do we need a 6 part series with national surveys and personal interviews about it… should we have the pastor talk about alcoholism for 6 weeks and put up a billboard about it, put some props on stage, have a raffle, and dedicate a website to it… there are a multitude of sins in the world… we don’t need 6 part series on them… we NEED the Word of God taught by our pastors from the pulpit…

    i thank God that i go to a church that focuses on teaching the Word of God and does not use gimmicks… you guys don’t know how thankful i am that i found this church (or should i say they found me)…
    :~)

    dear scott, i guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one!
    :~)

    shalom, my brother in Christ,
    jen-o

    p.s. about that cliche “don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater”, sometimes the bathwater is soo dark and dirty that people don’t realize there ain’t no baby in there… LOL

  7. phil, 31 August, 2007

    I have to agree with Jen-o on this one.

    It’s not that sex should never be mentioned in church, it’s just that it should not be a focus, as it appears to be in this case. Yes, many marriages might benefit from such presentations, but again, that does not make it a topic that churches should be going after.

    Even in a situation where a couple needs help, their focus should remain on God and his kingdom and then all things shall be added ….

    Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

    I look at this “sensationalism” and would compare it to another news story that has not made such a splash. Read more here…
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/books/08/31/celeb.qa.denisejackson.ap/index.html

    I believe this second article shows where the proper focus in marriage (and life) should be.

    Just my 2 cents
    Phil G
    PS Another interesting incident over at Cornerstone…. http://www.azcentral.com/community/chandler/articles/0831cr-church0901.html

  8. Linda, 31 August, 2007

    Hey Everyone!
    I can feel all the heart-felt opinions on this topic.

    Scott makes a good point about the fact that there are men who need guidance on these issues; however, it might have been better to offer it through the mens’ ministry or couples’ ministry in a cell group for those who want to sign up for it with a qualified, godly person leading it.

    Jen-o makes good points about stirring up certain feelings, & the kids.

    Maybe the one good thing out of this whole issue is that pastors may now see the needs of the men/women in their congregation & address it but in the proper venue & not sensationalize it.

    G-D bless you all!

  9. Remnant, 31 August, 2007

    I just left the web site for Corner stoned, oh that’s stone not “stoned” one thing I feel is important to note. The last message in the series to be held on Sunday, September 16th, 2007 is entitled PORN: What’s the Big Deal? IT includes guest speakers Michael Leahy and His EX-WIFE Patty! A Bio on them follows:

    Featured on ABC’s “20/20” and “The View”, and the subject of numerous local news stories and newspaper articles as he tours the nation’s universities, Michael is breaking the silence in what Oprah Winfrey refers to as America’s #1 addiction. His personal story captivates audiences with its gut-level honesty and open dialogue about America’s biggest obsession – sex.

    Michael along with his ex-wife Patty share intimate details about his growing obsession with porn, and how it changed the way he viewed and treated both women and men and ended up costing him a 15 year marriage and family of two boys. Yet, in the end, his is a message of hope and a symbol of courage in overcoming what is fast becoming a silent killer of lives and relationships. End of blurb.

    A quick glance of Michael Leahy’s Web site reveals:

    Author and expert on the sexualization of our culture:

    Fee: $2,500 – $5,000

    Topics: Current events, Relationships, Inspirational, Motivation, Image/Self-Esteem, Vision/Purpose

    Industry specialties: Information Services, Technology

    Travels from: GA

    Michael is a recovering sex addict and the founder of a nonprofit organization (not Ministry) called BraveHearts. He is widely recognized as the voice for over 20 million people in America who are sexually addicted. His keynote presentation, “Porn Nation-the Naked Truth”, is a fast-paced, multimedia-based lecture where Michael shares intimate details about his growing obsession with porn, and how it’s escalation into a full blown sexual addiction cost him a 15 year marriage and a family. Yet it’s also a story of hope culminating in the restoration and reconciliation of his relationships with his ex-wife Patty and his two boys.

    New for 2008, Michael will be joined on stage by his ex-wife Patty as they present “Porn Nation-One Family’s Story”, a gripping account of the rise and fall and unexpected redemption of one family’s pursuit of the American dream.

    Don’t miss out on these two unique opportunities to finally open up a public dialogue in your community about this huge issue that no one’s talking about but everyone’s affected by.

    Please notice these statements:

    #1. in the end, his is a message of hope and a symbol of courage in overcoming:

    There is no mention of his even being a Christian although this is just a blurb. I would hope that Michael gives the glory and credit to G_D for his deliverance from this bondage. Or did he do it through a “Self Help” group appearing on the View and 20/20 he plays mainly to campuses doing a debate form with porn star Ron Jeremy, much like the G. Gorden Liddy/Timothy Leary debates of the 80s which were a sham and j a money maker for the two of them.

    #2. Michael along with his ex-wife Patty share:

    Does this mean that G_D can deliver one from bondage, but not heal a marriage, or does this mean that they are now just friends, or is she waiting to see if he’s going to stay on the “straight and narrow” before recommitting? Again this is a short blurb but I would expect some mention of a reconciliation between the two of them. There is no mention of it only of the loss. No mention of a remarriage here just sharing the stage and maybe splitting the fee! Sounds to me like a money/lecture circuit freak show!

    #3. Michael’s obsession with porn cost him his marriage and family.

    All to true this is a devastating epidemic. There are many G_Dly men who have fallen in to this trap from the pit, and also many men who will give G_D the glory and the credit for their deliverance from bondage.

    Sorry but with the mention of Oprah Winfrey, herself one of the biggest blenders of “Christianity and Secular Humanism” to create the abomination called “Christian Psychology”. I am automatically skeptical, not only of Michael and his ex but more importantly of a church that would allow a divorced couple on stage who in his web site makes no mention of G_D !

    There is a need for the frank discussion and teaching of G_D’s gift of marriage, the vows, and sex to the body of the Messiah. The Cornerstone approach seems to be a circus and it’s not a big bed I would feel comfortable getting into.

    In Messiah
    Remnant

  10. Linda, 31 August, 2007

    FYI:

    ABC15.com
    A church accountant has been arrested, accused by Chandler police of embezzling more than $400,000 from the church.
    A Chandler Police Department statement says a search warrant served at Brenda Su Carroll-Nester’s home led to the seizure of over $250,000 in cash, traveler’s checks, money orders, and prepaid gift cards, along with cars, jewelry and high-end electronics valued at over $150,000.
    According to police, she had worked for Cornerstone Christian Fellowship Church for approximately five years.
    Police say it is an ongoing investigation and that the amount of money allegedly stolen likely would increase.

  11. jen-o, 31 August, 2007

    phil,

    thanks for those two links…

    i enjoyed reading denise jackson’s testimony… (funny how she didn’t focus on the problem, but focused on God, and her marriage was restored)

    as for the second link, it looks like cornerstone church needs to spend less time worrying about whether their congregation is “sexy” enough and more time protecting its flock from wolves (or should i say thieves)… afterall, while they were busy planning their “sexy” sermons, someone made off with half a million dollars of the flock’s hard-earned money…

    i’m glad i never gave any money to that church…

    shalom,
    jen-o

  12. Scott L., 01 September, 2007

    Hey Jen-o

    No need to butt heads on this one. I understand what your saying coming from your perspective of the article and what this church is doing.

    I agree we don’t need the gimmicks to bring the gospel to the lost, Jesus didn’t use any gimmicks why should we. He just told the truth.

    I agree that the pastor dosen’t need to bring a Dr. “Ruth” t0 explain sex ed. to the church and talk about fantasies and all the other cosmopolitan articles the go with it. The pastor just needs to outline the basic truth of sex according to Gods word and nothing else. Then if the church has specific problems to deal with the issues then ya they need to be put in small counseling groups or one on one counseling.

    Take for instance Orangewood Church of the Nazerene, has a really good bible based group called for Men Only using material from Dr. Doug Weiss who was a porn/sex addict. And it that particular enviorment details were discussed along with overcoming addiction to porn. The pastor highly supported this group, but on the flip side they also have one for the women to understand what the addiction is. Husband and wife were both encoureged to attend each group, but there were singles who attended too.
    This is where the details belong, not in the general congregation.

    Unless we are so off base in our thinking, our comments that we have posted, is just what our hearts tells us what is right. Jen-o I have no disagreement with your comments, this is what you believe is right for you and your kids, I support that and Phil agrees with you, I support him.

    But again, with the baby thing(lol). There are a lot of people out there who’s hearts are mudded with this serious sin issue that they are not what God created them to be, there is a lost soul in that body, that needs Jesus, and that includes the pedophile, gays/lesbians, trannys and the like. These types of lifstyles destroy people and we just can’t throw them out either. Don’t get me wrong these are some sick people, they made their choices by some influence in their lives and they will suffer the consequences.

    It’s all good Jen-o. There is just so much about this topic we could go on.
    But we all must agree that it is a big part of the problem of our society to day and we the church need to do something about and not just stick our heads in the sand thinking the problems going to go away, can I get an AMEN! (lol).

    God Bless
    Scott

  13. jen-o, 01 September, 2007

    dear scott,

    my comment about butting heads was said tongue in cheek… actually, it’s a term of endearment (well, in my family it was used like that… LOL)… we are use to saying all kinds of blunt things that in another family might be taken as insults… i can still hear my grandmother laugh and say: you little snot, you’re full of pi$$ and vinegar… that was a positive thing!… and was said with all the love in her heart… i dunno, maybe you had to be there… LOL…
    :~D

    i love the way i grew up and was raised by my grandparents… but it’s also part of the reason i am sometimes misinterpreted when i post… cuz folks can’t hear my tone of voice or see my body language… i think you said on another post that (when you were a child) you couldn’t understand why one of your sicilian relatives was mad all the time… having been raised like that, i knew nobody was mad (in fact, i rarely remember anyone actually getting mad… that’s just the way they expressed themselves)… oh, don’t get me wrong: i’m still a little snot who’s full of pi$$ and vinegar… heehee… but i’m not mad… :~D
    so it’s all good…

    back to topic (LOL)
    i do understand that there is a lot of sexual sin in our society… a few have been mentioned in this thread: infidelity (aka adultery… and btw, why didn’t they call it adultery?), pornography, homosexuality, pedophilia, etc. etc… i certainly don’t have all the answers to these major problems in our society, but i know that i don’t want to sit in church (with my kids or my parents) and listen to a sermon about any of the afore mentioned topics… certainly the church should be equipped to handle any kind of situation and help a person get rid of any kind of sin in their life; i just don’t think that sunday morning service is the place to do it…

    i am of the opinion that if one focuses on Jesus, and learns to follow Jesus, then all kinds of sins will automatically drop off and out of a person’s life… it’s not that i think we should stick our heads in the sand about problems, sin, or temptations… but rather that i think we should bring these things to Jesus… Jesus is the answer to everything… Jesus has the solution not some program that humans come up with… i know these lifestyles destroy people and i’m not advocating just throwing people away; i just think that we should point people to Jesus and not over-analyse their sins…

    i have a real problem with cornerstone church’s approach (can ya tell… LOL)… i think it is a laodicean church that is trying to bring a secular viewpoint into the church while using secular gimmicks…

    now about that baby in the bathwater (LOL)… the way i heard it: back in the old days when people use to take a bath once a year in the month of june, they would draw the water for one large tub for the bath and then the father of the family would take his bath first…the mother would go next (using that same water) followed by the kids, and last of all the baby got a bath using that same water… so by the time the baby got into the water, the bathwater was very dark and dirty from all the other family members who had taken their bath before the baby… so before you threw out the bathwater, you needed to make sure the baby wasn’t still in there (remember, there is a year’s worth of dirt from every family member in that tub of water)… hence the saying: don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater…

    i actually think this is a good analogy to use with churches… many churches in this day and age are so darkened by their involvement in the world, ecumenicism, idolatry, traditions of men, laodicean in nature, etc. that they are NOT true churches of the Lord Jesus Christ… these churches i liken to the dark, dirty tub of water used for the yearly bath… they have no light of the Word… there is no “baby” in them… either the “baby” crawled out when no one was looking or they never had a “baby” to begin with… either way, you can throw out that bathwater!! (so to speak)… and a church that is concerned about “sexy” seems to fit in that category…

    i like that cliche, scott… although i might change it to say: if there is no baby in the bathwater, please throw that dark, dirty water out as soon as possible; it’ll get stagnant and draw mosquitos…
    :~D

    peace to you always, my brother,
    jen-o
    (the little snot)
    heehee

  14. Scott L., 02 September, 2007

    Hey Jen-o

    Nah! your good with the comments. I have learned over the years not to be easily offended, but I have learned a little bit about you to discern your language, so I can tell when your on a rant and when your just makin your jen-o commments, like I said, we are like minded.

    But I do agree with ya. no gimmicks, no frills, no secular adveritising just the plain truth about Jesus. And let God do the rest.

    But all I’m saying about the pulpit is that too many pastors water the word and don’t teach the truth. It dosen’t matter what subject is to be addressed. It just needs to be the truth and God’s truth at that.
    If your offended, LEAVE! God never does apologize for his word, it’s yes or no and black and white, with a whole lot of grace and mercy. THANK YOU JESUS!!!!.

    No matter what, I will always enjoy your posts, even if they are ful of pi$$ and vinegar and a snot nose to go with it (ROFLOL) 🙂

    God Bless, my dear sister
    Scott

  15. jen-o, 03 September, 2007

    hey scott,

    i knew you would understand…
    :~D

    and i agree with you about too many pastors watering down the Word of Truth… i think they do that so they can draw a larger crowd, and then pat themselves on the back over how many people they are “reaching” (and maybe even call it a revival)… but you and i both know that a large crowd is not indicative of the truth being taught… you can draw a large crowd with all kinds of bells and whistles… i think it is more like a marketing strategy to see how they can repackage christianity… but in the midst of wrapping up their new packages, they seem to have left the “baby” out… (they’ve taken the Christ out of christianity)… it’s kinda like opening up a fancy box decorated with all kinds of bows and ribbons only to find that the box is empty!… who needs it?… but we have been warned about these laodicean style churches… they want to appeal to everybody and offend no one, and so they become lukewarm, and have no real knowledge of our Lord or His Word…

    these are the times we live in (sigh)

    but i am always so happy to meet a brother or sister in Christ!… even here at InTheDays… :~D

    shalom, my brother,
    jen-o

  16. brian, 03 September, 2007

    keep your problems in the usa-dont give the rest of the church here in the uk or anywhere else your un believable antics called church-whoever this church is you are so little and babyish….we cant believe this is where its at….we are stunned-at least deal with your sex problems privately and biblically…but please dont send anymore american church to the rest of the world…we are so sad and tired of it…i cant express our shock-we are actually crying over the stuff our young people are learning from these sorts of church businesses that keep flooding uk side-we are praying of cours for this bizarre forms of church here and in the usa–but please no more–non christians here laugh at these type of things and even they say why doesnt church stick to the bible and how things ar sposed to be
    brian j.

  17. Scott L., 03 September, 2007

    Brian

    We can’t control everything my friend, only our own personnel lives, but be patient, God will soon seperate the “wheat from the chaff”

    But don’t blame the U.S. on th U.K.’s problem’s we have both exchanged bad influence’s. So the best we can do for each other, is pray for each others country, would you not agree?

    Scott

  18. jen-o, 04 September, 2007

    dear brian,

    i can understand your outrage… we’ve got all kinds of false teachings and false prophets over here… the rest of the world is, of course, also seeped in idolatry (of hinduism, islam, ancestor worship, etc.), but perhaps it’s worse here because they come in the name of the Lord… still, the Lord knows how to protect His chosen, the sheep still hear His voice and another they will NOT follow…

    this is part of a much bigger problem, i.e. the merging of all religions into one global religion (which thing no one can stop) for the Lord has predicted it and warned us of it…

    if non-christians laugh at these kinds of things, that would be a great open door for us to explain what is going on in these churches… explain what a laodicean church is to them, open the book of revelation, show them the 7 churches, explain the global religion that is to come, and WARN them of the wrath that is to come… EVERY opportunity should be used to WARN people… then if they laugh, shake the dust off your feet…

    i do not apologize for these “churches”… i say: yeah, you’re right, and use their remarks for a springboard to open up the Truth to them… we are here to expose all falsehood and that includes false teachings in the churches… we don’t need to wring our hands and cry “woe is me” over it… we need to EXPOSE it…

    brian, this is not about the usa VS the uk… (if we are true christans, none of this world is our home) and we too are crying over our young people and the worldview they are getting from the world (the schools, the media, new-age influences, hinduistic thought, islamic ideology, etc. etc. and yes, also from the laodicean churches)… the best thing we can do for our young people is to expose the lies, speak the truth, and tell them about Jesus!

    peace to you,
    jen-o

  19. Nancy, 21 November, 2008

    Good grief, where is Jesus in this church?
    I realize some need extra help in the body of Christ and the pastor is called to help.
    I have a real problem with the gimmics, isn’t this sending the wrong message? That Jesus can’t or won’t set the captives free? Let there not be a hint of sexual immorality among you….sound familar? Satin sheets and king size bed raffles and billboards with suggestive, thought provoking pictures advertising a “church” service. How about bringing “Holiness” back? Then again these are women preachers so they have already rejected the scripture’s and their instruction and even glory in it. What can one expect?
    A return to sound holy doctrine and practice???? I don’t think so.
    The Antichrist’s easiest hurdle will be controling these churches for his spirit has already entered.
    Tis a dark day we find ourselves living in…

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