Obama worked with terrorist
Monday, February 25th, 2008 | 
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Posted by John under: Ishmael,Perilous Times
Picture from Drudge Report
Senator helped fund organization that rejects ‘racist’ Israel’s existence
Ishmael
“And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.”
—Genesis 16:12
Perilous Times
“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
—2Timothy 3:1-2a
â€But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.â€
—2Timothy 3:13
JERUSALEM – The board of a nonprofit organization on which Sen. Barack Obama served as a paid director alongside a confessed domestic terrorist granted funding to a controversial Arab group that mourns the establishment of Israel as a “catastrophe” and supports intense immigration reform, including providing drivers licenses and education to illegal aliens.
The co-founder of the Arab group in question, Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi, also has held a fundraiser for Obama. Khalidi is a harsh critic of Israel, has made statements supportive of Palestinian terror and reportedly has worked on behalf of the Palestine Liberation Organization while it was involved in anti-Western terrorism and was labeled by the State Department as a terror group.
In 2001, the Woods Fund, a Chicago-based nonprofit that describes itself as a group helping the disadvantaged, provided a $40,000 grant to the Arab American Action Network, or AAAN, for which Khalidi’s wife, Mona, serves as president. The Fund provided a second grant to the AAAN for $35,000 in 2002.
Obama was a director of the Woods Fund board from 1999 to Dec. 11, 2002, according to the Fund’s website. According to tax filings, Obama received compensation of $6,000 per year for his service in 1999 and 2001.
Obama served on the Wood’s Fund board alongside William C. Ayers, a member of the Weathermen terrorist group which sought to overthrow of the U.S. government and took responsibility for bombing the U.S. Capitol in 1971.
Ayers, who still serves on the Woods Fund board, contributed $200 to Obama’s senatorial campaign fund and has served on panels with Obama at numerous public speaking engagements. Ayers admitted to involvement in the bombings of U.S. governmental buildings in the 1970s. He is a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago.
The $40,000 grant from Obama’s Woods Fund to the AAAN constituted about a fifth of the Arab group’s reported grants for 2001, according to tax filings obtained by WND. The $35,000 Woods Fund grant in 2002 also constituted about one-fifth of AAAN’s reported grants for that year.
The AAAN, headquartered in the heart of Chicago’s Palestinian immigrant community, describes itself as working to “empower Chicago-area Arab immigrants and Arab Americans through the combined strategies of community organizing, advocacy, education and social services, leadership development, and forging productive relationships with other communities.”
It reportedly has worked on projects with the Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights, which supports open boarders and education for illegal aliens.
The AAAN in 2005 sent a letter to New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson in which it called a billboard opposing a North Carolina-New Mexico joint initiative to deny driver’s licenses to illegal aliens a “bigoted attack on Arabs and Muslims.”
Speakers at AAAN dinners and events routinely have taken an anti-Israel line.
The group co-sponsored a Palestinian art exhibit, titled, “The Subject of Palestine,” that featured works related to what some Palestinians call the “Nakba” or “catastrophe” of Israel’s founding in 1948.
According to the widely discredited Nakba narrative, Jews in 1948 forcibly expelled hundreds of thousands – some Palestinians claim over one million – Arabs from their homes and then took over the territory.
Historically, about 600,000 Arabs fled Israel after surrounding Arab countries warned they would destroy the Jewish state in 1948. Some Arabs also were driven out by Jewish forces while they were trying to push back invading Arab armies. At the same time, over 800,000 Jews were expelled or left Arab countries under threat after Israel was founded.
The theme of AAAN’s Nakba art exhibit, held at DePaul University in 2005, was “the compelling and continuing tragedy of Palestinian life … under [Israeli] occupation … home demolition … statelessness … bereavement … martyrdom, and … the heroic struggle for life, for safety, and for freedom.”
Another AAAN initiative, titled, “Al Nakba 1948 as experienced by Chicago Palestinians,” seeks documents related to the “catastrophe” of Israel’s founding.
A post on the AAAN site asked users: “Do you have photos, letters or other memories you could share about Al-Nakba-1948?”
That posting was recently removed. The AAAN website currently states the entire site is under construction.
Pro-PLO advocate held Obama fundraiser, describes Obama as ‘sympathetic’
AAAN co-founder Rashid Khalidi was reportedly a director of the official PLO press agency WAFA in Beirut from 1976 to 1982, while the PLO committed scores of anti-Western attacks and was labeled by the U.S. as a terror group. Khalidi’s wife, AAAN President Mona Khalidi, was reportedly WAFA’s English translator during that period.
Rashid Khalidi at times has denied working directly for the PLO but Palestinian diplomatic sources in Ramallah told WND he indeed directed WAFA. Khalidi also advised the Palestinian delegation to the Madrid Conference in 1991.
During documented speeches and public events, Khalidi has called Israel an “apartheid system in creation” and a destructive “racist” state.
He has multiple times expressed support for Palestinian terror, calling suicide bombings response to “Israeli aggression.” He dedicated his 1986 book, “Under Siege,” to “those who gave their lives … in defense of the cause of Palestine and independence of Lebanon.” Critics assailed the book as excusing Palestinian terrorism.
While the Woods Fund’s contribution to Khalidi’s AAAN might be perceived as a one-time run in with Obama, the presidential hopeful and Khalidi evidence a deeper relationship.
According to a professor at the University of Chicago who said he has known Obama for 12 years, the Democratic presidential hopeful first befriended Khalidi when the two worked together at the university. The professor spoke on condition of anonymity. Khalidi lectured at the University of Chicago until 2003 while Obama taught law there from 1993 until his election to the Senate in 2004.
Khalidi in 2000 held what was described as a successful fundraiser for Obama’s failed bid for a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives, a fact not denied by Khalidi.
Speaking in a joint interview with WND and the John Batchelor Show of New York’s WABC Radio and Los Angeles’ KFI Radio, Khalidi was asked about his 2000 fundraiser for Obama.
“I was just doing my duties as a Chicago resident to help my local politician,” Khalidi stated.
Khalidi said he supports Obama for president “because he is the only candidate who has expressed sympathy for the Palestinian cause.”
Khalidi also lauded Obama for “saying he supports talks with Iran. If the U.S. can talk with the Soviet Union during the Cold War, there is no reason it can’t talk with the Iranians.”
Asked about Obama’s role funding the AAAN, Khalidi claimed he had “never heard of the Woods Fund until it popped up on a bunch of blogs a few months ago.”
He terminated the call when petitioned further about his links with Obama.
Contacted by phone, Mona Khalidi refused to answer WND’s questions about the AAAN’s involvement with Obama.
Obama’s campaign headquarters did not reply to a list of WND questions sent by e-mail to the senator’s press office.
Obama, American terrorist in same circles
Obama served on the board with Ayers, who was a Weathermen leader and has written about his involvement with the group’s bombings of the New York City Police headquarters in 1970, the Capitol in 1971 and the Pentagon in 1972.
“I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough,” Ayers told the New York Times in an interview released on Sept. 11, 2001
“Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon,” Ayers wrote in his memoirs, titled “Fugitive Days.” He continued with a disclaimer that he didn’t personally set the bombs, but his group set the explosives and planned the attack.
A $200 campaign contribution is listed on April 2, 2001 by the “Friends of Barack Obama” campaign fund. The two taught appeared speaking together at several public events, including a 1997 University of Chicago panel entitled, “Should a child ever be called a ‘super predator?’” and another panel for the University of Illinois in April 2002, entitled, “Intellectuals: Who Needs Them?”
The charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974 because of prosecutorial misconduct, including illegal surveillance.
Ayers is married to another notorious Weathermen terrorist, Bernadine Dohrn, who has also served on panels with Obama. Dohrn was once on the FBI’s Top 10 Most Wanted List and was described by J. Edgar Hoover as the “most dangerous woman in America.” Ayers and Dohrn raised the son of Weathermen terrorist Kathy Boudin, who was serving a sentence for participating in a 1981 murder and robbery that left 4 people dead.
Obama advisor wants talks with terrorists
The revelations about Obama’s relationship with Khalidi follows a recent WND article quoting Israeli security officials who expressed “concern” about Robert Malley, an adviser to Obama who has advocated negotiations with Hamas and providing international assistance to the terrorist group.
Malley, a principal Obama foreign policy adviser, has penned numerous opinion articles, many of them co-written with a former adviser to the late Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat, petitioning for dialogue with Hamas and blasting Israel for numerous policies he says harm the Palestinian cause.
Malley also previously penned a well-circulated New York Review of Books piece largely blaming Israel for the collapse of the Israeli-Palestinian negotiations at Camp David in 2000 when Arafat turned down a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza and eastern sections of Jerusalem and instead returned to the Middle East to launch an intifada, or terrorist campaign, against the Jewish state.
Malley’s contentions have been strongly refuted by key participants at Camp David, including President Bill Clinton, then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and primary U.S. envoy to the Middle East Dennis Ross, all of whom squarely blamed Arafat’s refusal to make peace for the talks’ failure.
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Raul Rocha says Comment posted on February 25th, 2008
Very interesting! I was definitely not going to vote for him anyway since I’m going to be voting for Mr. McCain, but this is good info. to share with the many that don’t know any better. Thanks for the article; lot of good stuff. Shalom!
YeshuaAgapao says Comment posted on February 25th, 2008
I don’t like any of the big-4 candidates (Hillary,Obama,Huckabee,McKain).
Ernest Gregoire says Comment posted on February 26th, 2008
With candidates like McCain, (a closet liberal), and Obama, (who makes Engeles and Marx look like conservatives, and the Bill-arry team, (two of the most pattenly evil people in America,) running for president; I pray for the soon return of Jesus Christ.
After decades of killing the unborn, (40 million killed) and elvating homosexuality to sacred cow status, and denegrating God at every available opportunity, America has earned its demise.
Only a soverign act of God can prevent it now.
Maranatha
Lance Gilman says Comment posted on February 26th, 2008
I personally believe God’s grace is still shed upon this great country.
The gospel is still preached and sinners are still repenting and receiving the grace of God.
There has always been sin in our lives. ( “for if you say you are without sin, you deceive yourself.”) It’s just that, as the bible predicts, “in the last days sin will abound more and more. ”
We should desire to live following Christ, but, let’s not think we can keep the world from going the way God said it would go.
I think of joshua, “for me and my house we will serve the LORD.”
LG
I might check the neither box on my ballot,
But, I might also stand with McCain because he has voiced a strong commitment to Defense, and I think we need that more than anything.
penny says Comment posted on February 26th, 2008
just watch, obama will be our next president and not only will he sell us out.. he will pull any and all support the U.S. is giving israel… and israel will stand alone. who do we vote for? talk about perplexity. COME LORD JESUS. AMEN.
Linda says Comment posted on February 28th, 2008
Penny,
I know how you feel.
That being said, please take a moment to go to a post @:
http://www.inthedays.com/lovers-of-the-truth/this-november-im-voting-christian/#comments
and read Remnant’s contribution to that article. Remnant has been blessed with the gift of applying the Word of G-D to the every-day issues that we face today.
G-D’s blessings to all.
David H says Comment posted on February 29th, 2008
I believe this article is nothing but right wing propaganda garbage. You can’t read into much and expect it to be the truth. You guys all forget that Obama does claim to be a christian and who are we to say he isn’t until he proved otherwise. Just because you are christian doesn’t mean you have to vote Republican. Republican doesn’t equal conservative anymore, and Republican doesn’t equal christian. For peronsonally, I am neither Republican or Democrat, for I am independent and I wish that all christians would register independent because it is the Republican party who have given christianity a bad name because you have so called republicans claiming to be christian and saying “God told me to go to war with Iraq.” Our politicians whom claim to be christian are supposed to be a good witness because they are in public view, but in my opinion more people have viered away from the ideal of christianity because of the bad name it has recieved because of people like Bush. So I will be voting for Obama this election, and I’m a christian supporting him and I’m not ashamed of that.
David H says Comment posted on February 29th, 2008
Oh, I forgot, we are so worried that Obama will get in and not support Israel? What is the difference now? Bush is in office and our government gives millions or if even billions of dollars to the palastinian government who is basically ran by terrorist. We give billions of dollars to Saudi Arabia and Iran who are sworn enemies of Israel, but yet we are afraid Obama won’t support Israel? Why do we pat our friend on the back and yet shake the hand of the enemy of our friend? Regardless, there is one reason why I believe God returned Israel (Ezekiel 37); and it will happen with or without America’s support, it is to prepare the way for the return of our Lord.
Sarah Holmes says Comment posted on February 29th, 2008
You know, the irony is about this is that no one really cares in this nation. You have a few that are raising the red flag but for the most part, our nation and the church have become so Laodicean that no one cares one way or the other…. except of course for the remnant of true believers that KNOW what is going on. I go on record today to say that our next president will be Obama so brace yourselves and turn your eyes upward. We should all be getting whiplash from looking up so much.
I’ll be voting for Bill Koenig if he does run for president but if he doesn’t, I’m writing in Jesus on the ballet because everyone else on the box will bring nothing but destruction upon this nation. I refuse to align myself with what they stand for. When you vote, you condone everything they stand for. Vote wisely.
The Lord Jesus bless you all,
Sarah
penny says Comment posted on March 01st, 2008
nor am i republican or democrat, i vote for the person ,not the party. and your probably correct in that any elected president will more than likely lead us down the road to destruction, but open your eyes to the fact that obama was a nobody, he came suddenly out of nowhere, he is half black half white so all can love him, people are fainting in his presence, thousands flock to see him,he was photo’d in muslem attire, he was sending funds as a senator thru another muslem to fund terroist in the middle east, and as an added kick…his full name is obama hussain barak. we are definately living in the end times(PRAISE GOD ALMIGHTY), is it all a coinsidence? i could be all wrong about him…but what if i am right? oh yeah, he is antisemetic. well. see ya;ll in the sky! god bless you all!
jen-o says Comment posted on March 02nd, 2008
david h,
anybody can “claim” to be a “christian”…
BUT “by their fruits you shall know them”…
i’ve been looking at the fruit of this guy obama’s life… and the fruit stinks!
if obama is a christian, then i’m a giraffe…
jen-o says Comment posted on March 02nd, 2008
and speaking of obama…
has anyone seen the website obamamessiah.blogspot.com??
the website is composed of actual articles and actual photographs highlighting the insanity that has come to be known as obamamania…
i venture to say that this is a taste of what it’s going to look like when the anti-christ comes to power…
people have lost their reasoning ability and have been totally swept away in an hysterical frenzy of emotion… they have no God, and have made obama their “god”, comparing him to Jesus Christ and referring to him as “a savior”, “the hope of the entire world”, “blessed and highly favored”, “the key to unlock the door”, “the new wine”, “the new testament”, etc. ad nauseum… they call him their “hope” and say that he “radiates truth and goodness”… one person said that “he’s not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh” (whatever that means)… they all BELIEVE in him and his ability to “heal the nation” and “repair the world”…
the photographs show adoring crowds, swooning, with outstretched arms, chanting his name, screaming and crying, reaching out to touch the hem of his garment, um, i mean hand… check out the facial expressions on these people… they idolize and worship this guy… (gag)…
obama himself says “i can be an instrument of God” in order to help “create a kingdom right here on earth”… (gag again)
some of his more famous followers have been quoted as saying:
“i’ll do whatever he says to. i’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear”— halle berry
“this guy was God before i was”— morgan freeman
and the gushing oprah implies that obama is “the truth” with her statement that it’s not enough to have a politician who tells the truth, you have to “be the truth”… oprah says that obama is “an evolved leader who will help us all evolve to a higher plane”… (okay, how many times can i gag… LOL)
if ever there was a reason NOT to vote for somebody, this is it…
but it’s also a taste of how people will act toward the anti-christ… they too will think he is the messiah…
David H says Comment posted on March 03rd, 2008
I wonder if WND is a reliable source?
Patt says Comment posted on March 03rd, 2008
Dear Jeno
If you google CHRISTIAN, there is no clear definition. The common thread is a belief in the teachings and message of Christ. How you , or a group you support , defines the message and teachings determines the “type” of christian you are. Thus thousands of christian sects all over the world with different teachings and messages. If one christian condemns the belief of another christian , does that make either or neither christian or non-christian?
When one christian denies another christian their label, is that not just opinion or—JUDGEMENT? Matthew speaks to that.
I was raised in the Catholic church. One of their primary beliefs is that they are “the only one true church”. Catholicism has been highly disparaged at this site and probably rightly so. However, do you not commit the same sin when you judge Truth soley by your unique belief ? Your belief does not make Truth , Truth, it makes it true for you. Is knowing the identity of the anti-christ a gift or a guess?
Americans are a very diverse group. We are wise and ignorant, wealthy and poor, holy and unholy, and on and on. Please give some credit to voters that they will use the majority of their talents to choose who they want elected to lead our gifted country out of the many dreadful situations we are mired in today. Your picture of Obama supporters is not “fair and balanced”. A fact, as opposed to opinion, is: his largest demigraphic is educated folks.
The last 7 years have been very difficult for America and her citizens. I believe it has left us wounded. Obama emits a sense of healing and hope for a brighter future to many voters. This is something we have not felt for awhile.
It looks as if the final 2 may be Obama and McCain. If you want war vote for a warrior, if you want peace vote for a peacemaker. Both are God-sent, the choice is ours.
Blessings for All,
Patt
Joan H says Comment posted on March 03rd, 2008
If all of this article is accurate, why hasn’t the Clintonary team made this public knowledge or CNN? Do any of the techno experts out there know how to e-mail this article to CNN or Hilary?
Remnant says Comment posted on March 03rd, 2008
Dear David H
I have researched many of the things reported on World Net Daily and have found them to be very accurate.
Here are links to two more articles on Obama
Obama: Sermon on Mount OKs Same-Sex Unions
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Obama_same_sex/2008/03/03/77289.html
Of course CNSNews could be considered a front for the right wing Fascist trash that are intent on forcing government mandated child rearing done by the state. (;~D (to those of you who about to have a fit, this is just a jest )
Obama’s truthiness about Farrakhan
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0308/west030308.php3?printer_friendly
And we all know about the Zionist plot to rule the world (;~D
(to those of you who about to have a fit, this is just a jest )
I guess some “christians”only believe the National Peoples Radio
In Messiah
Remnant
David H says Comment posted on March 04th, 2008
I do agree with you that he does seem to have that anti-christ appeal where people are just flocking to him, and I did hear on the news the other day Farakan the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood calling him the savior of the world. I think although there are some factors as to why people flock to him, and it’s because people are tired of the Bush ara, and people are jumping on anything that looks promising and different. It reminds me of the white horseman in Revelation who came wearing all white and had a bow in his hand but no arrow, the man basically conquered and came by peace. I believe that the world is setting the stage for what ultimately must go down. But, lucky for us that which restrains the evil one must be removed first; so hopefully it happens as we all believe it will happen, that Christ will call us home first before the anti-christ is allowed to proceed in his reign. If not, we’re in for some hard times.
Joy B. says Comment posted on March 04th, 2008
Dear Patt,
Christianity is not defined on the internet. It is defined in the Bible. The biggest threats to it come not from avowed atheists, but from within. It is our duty as Christians to not stand idly by while it is redefined by “those who have crept inâ€. They wish to counterfeit it and lead many souls to destruction.
The Bible tells us not to judge the sinner, but to proclaim the sin for what it is. It is not judgment, it is discernment. We are not to win over the world by becoming like the world. We should not be cowered by the world’s “newspeak†– cries of tolerance to silence opposition.
Please read the following taken from:
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/warren-smith/5-reinventing.htm
Not long after our conversion, my wife and I sat down one day and talked about the ultimate spiritual deception described in the Bible—the great “falling away†of the church and the coming of Antichrist. We agreed that for someone like Antichrist to be credible in the world, he would need a majority of the people who call themselves Christians to believe that he was Christ. If he could get enough Christians—especially Christian leaders—to follow him, he could then discredit and marginalize those who oppose him. But to get people who call themselves Christians to believe that he was Christ he would first have to successfully redefine Christianity. To do that he would have to introduce non-Christian teachings and practices into the church, while at the same time making them appear Christian. His obvious goal would be to convert undiscerning and unsuspecting believers into a more eastern and mystical, New Age “Christianity.†While invoking the name of “God†and “Christ†he would actually turn the Bible upside down—just as we had seen in A Course in Miracles and in our New Age teachings.
Christianity would become a more “positive†New Age “Christianity.†This New Age Christianity would have “a form of godliness†but it would actually deny the true faith (1 Timothy 3:5). This New Age Christianity/New Spirituality would use Christian terminology but it would be under the spell of “another Jesus,†“another spirit,†and “another gospel†(2 Corinthians 11:4). This New Age/New Gospel/New Spirituality would be the ultimate counterfeit and the ultimate deception. It would be what the real Jesus warned his followers to watch out for.
This new gospel is selling “global peaceâ€. Oprah Winfrey has given these individuals involved in counterfeiting, airtime on her television and radio shows. She is even doing a “bible†study of one of their books, New Earth, on her radio program.
If we allow Christianity to be redefined by those proclaiming to be Christians, whether it is Pres. George Bush or the New Age friends of Oprah Winfrey, we are allowing others to be deceived.
Joy
Linda says Comment posted on March 04th, 2008
Hi everyone!
Here’s something that I was thinking about . . . wouldn’t a true Christian try to discourage others from idolizing him?
And, Jen-o, thanks for the link . . . it is deffinitely gag-inducing!
G-D’s blessings to all,
jen-o says Comment posted on March 05th, 2008
dear patt,
it does not surprise me that google can not come up with a clear definition for “christian”… however, i do not get my definitions from google… i allow the bible to interpret itself because “no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation”(1Pet.1:20)… private interpretation is what causes the “christian sects…with different teachings and messages” that you refer to… this is why there are so many different denominations – because people have ADDED their OWN private interpretation to the scriptures… BUT this is NOT what God intended…
God intended for there to be ONE church… the word for church is ekklesia in the greek, and it means “the called out”, that is those who have been called out of the world to be members of the Body of Christ… and there is only ONE Body of Christ… so there are not different “types” of christians… there are christians (members of the Body of Christ) and there are non-christians… you are either a member of the Body of Christ or you are not… there is no middle of the road…
there is also a subset of NON-christians who “call” themselves christians… they may call themselves “christian” for a number of reasons… perhaps they were born into a denomination and “sprinkled with water” as a baby… perhaps they grew up in a church… perhaps they consider themselves “christian” because they do good deeds… perhaps they attend church regularly… there could be a number of reasons… HOWEVER, if they have NOT repented of their sins and accepted Jesus as their personal Savior and made a committment to follow Him as Lord of their lives, then they are NOT a member of the Body of Christ and they are “christian” in name only… in other words, they are still a NON-christian…
this is neither “my” opinion nor is it “my” judgement… this is what God says in His Word… i didn’t write the book… i just believe what He says!
when i use the term “christian”, i am referring to those who have accepted Jesus as Lord and savior, who are members of the ONE Body of Christ… this is not a matter of me denying a “christian” their label… let me ask you this, would you want clothing manufacturers to label a shirt cotton when it was wool?… it’s confusing!… so too is the label “christian” when it is applied to non-christians…
christians do NOT condemn the beliefs of other christians… because we believe the SAME thing!… no we are not clones and there is immense variety among us (as there is immense variety among the parts of the human body)… however, we ALL believe the Word of God and accept it as Truth…
btw, if the bible is Truth, and i believe the bible; then what i believe IS Truth… (there is no such thing as relative truth aka it’s “true” for me… this “true for me” stuff doesn’t make any sense… Truth stands alone, outside of individual opinions and perceptions)… there is Truth and there is deception (aka lies)… there is no such thing as “true for you” or “true for me”…
now, why do you ask me if knowing the identity of the anti-christ is a gift or a guess??… i did not claim to know the identity of the anti-christ… i said that obamamania was a taste of what it will look like when the whole world follows after the anti-christ… and they WILL worship the anti-christ (Rev.13:4,8)
i certainly did not claim that obama was the anti-christ… he’s far too much of a peon for that… this is probably just a dry run… oh, and it’s NOT “my” picture of obama supporters… i simply posted a link to a website which FYI is composed of actual articles from MANY different news sources (with accompanying links so you can check each item out for yourself)… these news sources include the washington post, the baltimore sun, the new york times, the houston chronicle, the canadian press, calgary herald, huffington post, toronto star, chigaco sun-times, international herald tribune, dallas morning news, new york observer, the new yorker, the guardian, the politico, MSNBC, CBC news, asssociated press, and reuters (among others)… the photos come from reuters, AP photos, and obama’s OWN campaign website… so this is not “my” picture… it is the picture that is painted from this wide variety of news sources… oh, and YouTube has some choice videos… this obama-mania phenomenon has been widely reported on… it just really hits home when it’s all in one place… my reason for posting this link was to give people an idea of what it’s going to look like when the anti-christ comes to power… the anti-christ is going to make people feel real good, too… he’s going to “emit a sense of healing and ‘hope’ for a brighter future” to the whole world (not just america)…
as for me, i already have my Hope… Jesus, the Messiah, is MY Hope… i need NO OTHER…
shalom,
jen-o
Linda says Comment posted on March 05th, 2008
Jen-o,
Here we go again, trying to explain why we believe what we believe; that there IS an absolute Truth, that Jesus Christ IS the ONLY way to G-D, that there IS a heaven & a hell, & that G-D WILL pour down HIS wrath upon those who do not accept HIS son as their Savior. As you know, HIS Word explains the following:
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
1Cor 1:18-31
jen-o says Comment posted on March 07th, 2008
joy,
thanks for posting that article and its link… i do agree with warren smith… the “god of this world” (aka satan) is working thru the people and systems of this world to redefine christianity by reinventing Jesus Christ… true christians can, of course, see right thru this… however, when we speak up to warn people about this deception, we are called “unchristian-like” by those who want to measure us by the world’s definitions…
hey… here’s a thought: according to acts 11:26, the DISCIPLES of Christ were first called (or labeled) “christians” in the city of antioch… so the term “christians” is another word for DISCIPLES (they are synonyms! and mean the same thing)… so my question is: i wonder how many of the so-called “christians” who “label” themselves as such would also call themselves DISCIPLES of Christ??… hmmm…
i would venture to say that there are a lot of people who want to call themselves “christian”, but who would never refer to themselves as a “disciple of Christ”… since these terms are synonymous, this discrepancy highlights the fact that the term “christian” has been so watered down as to become almost meaningless… the term “christian” is thrown around and applied to just about anything… so it’s no wonder that obama wants to claim it for his own… obama, the man who refers people to the sermon on the mount in reference to same-sex marriage; obama, the man who refers to a passage in romans as “obscure.” =:~o
and ain’t that the cat’s meow… now we got NON-christians trying to interpret the scriptures for us!… it’s very unseemly to have a non-christian twist the scripture to suit their own agenda… obama twists scripture (and degrades a passage) in order to support his own position on same-sex marriage… and as patt also has attempted to do in referencing the book of matthew to condemn me for “my judgement”… don’t these non-christians know that our God has sent us the Holy Spirit to teach us all things (John 14:26)… the Holy Spirit, which is also called the Spirit of Truth, “whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but we know Him, for He dwells with us and in us” (John 14:17)… so why would we allow a non-christian to interpret the scriptures for us???
but, as linda has pointed out, the preaching of the cross is foolishness to the non-christians… the world in all of its wisdom knows NOT God… but we are saved by the power of God, by the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ… and although we are in the world, we are NOT of the world… and so we do not jump on the world’s bandwagon to follow a man (any man) who promises to change the world and give us a “brighter tomorrow”…
“They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.”
“We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does NOT hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.”
(1John4:5,6)
IF people are really sick and tired of the things going on in this world, following obama (or any man) is NOT going to help them; let them turn toward the Lord Jesus Christ and follow Him!
shalom,
jen-o
Joy B. says Comment posted on March 11th, 2008
jen,
The most loving and compassionate thing we can do for non-christians is to give them the truth. Those truly seeking the truth cannot necessarily find it in the churches or from church leaders.
Due to the lack of church leadership, there is a greater responibility for us “disciples of Christ”. Three of our missions should be:
1.) Providing the truth (a beacon of light) to nonbelievers.
2.) Keeping other Disciples of Christ informed of what the ones trying to creep in and redefine out religion are up to. Warning believers and nonbelievers about these people.
3.) Praying for the salvation of others – throw out the life preservers!!!!
joy
Patt says Comment posted on March 13th, 2008
my question is: i wonder how many of the so-called “christians†who “label†themselves as such would also call themselves DISCIPLES of Christ??… hmmm…
http://www.diciples.org
Apparently there are a few. Below are some excerpts from their web-site.
“In the spirit of our Disciples tradition where we say, “In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things love”; where we declare that all are welcome at the table, I say to you, welcome.
…In this faith community, represented by those of us gathered here, we proclaim that God is respected when God’s children are respected. God is honored when all God’s children are housed and healthy and fed. God is magnified when God’s children are dignified with work that works…..
…We worship God who lives in the world today as the living Jesus, who began his ministry by announcing good news to the poor, release to the captives, recovery of sight to the blind, and letting the oppressed go free. Who said at the end of his ministry that the way we serve the Risen Christ is to feed the hungry people we see, to give drink to the thirsty in our community, to clothe the naked next to us.
We worship God who lives in the world through us.
…They (people in need) need to know about God who loved the world enough to create it in the first place, who asks us to care for that world as if we loved it, too. They need to know about God who created humans little less than the angels, who gave us to each other for company and community, and who gave us a job to do.
In a world where the dictates of empire say that people are expendable, markets only matter, people need to know about a community of faith where we see the very image of God gently molded on the face of every person and treat them as such. We need a prophetic word today.
In a groaning world, where the powerful take advantage of the weak, where the cult of individualism causes persons to be lost from the embrace of family, of community, of unconditional love, people need us to speak up….
May we Preach the gospel always – when necessary – use words.”
Question: Are John Haggee and Rod Parsley, two pastors who have endorsed McCain, the real deal, or just self labeled wannabes?
Blessings,
patt
Linda says Comment posted on March 15th, 2008
i would like to ask mr. obama’s pastor a few questions:
would he carry on (as shown on hannity & colmes) if Jesus Christ was sitting in the front pew?
where was G-D’s Word being spoken?
where was Jesus being edified?
where was G-D’s greatest commandment, Love, being spoken?
where was “pray for your leaders” being taught?
where was “do not use G-D’s name in vain” being displayed?
did Jesus ever display such physical gestures as wright did while standing at the pulpit when referring to monica?
are characteristics of Heaven being taught (no jew or greek, etc.) when he carries on about oppression?
did Jesus honor anyone who declared hatred towards HIS Father’s chosen people?
and, why, when his congregation can get all this hostile rhetoric on cable news 24/7, wouldn’t he be sure to use those precious 90 minutes to focus on our LORD & Savior, Christ Jesus?
…and i’m sure there are many more.
and mr. obama says he never heard all theses statement . .if these were rare examples of such remarks, then the congregation would have been apalled (i didn’t see any evidence of that on the videos) & then obama would have heard about the remarks from others in the congregation.
the excitement & applause from the congregation, & the passion & comfortability with which wright carried on tells me that these actions & statements are not all that rare.
so now we have a presidential canidate who has attended this man’s church for almost 2 decades; has enought reverence for the man to ask him to perform both his wedding & the baptisms of his 2 daughters; asked him to pray with him before entering the presidential race (& these videos make me wonder if they were praying for obama to be able to build our nation up or tear it down); & describes him as an uncle.
Heavenly Father, I pray for YOUR will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven, in Christ Jesus name.
jen-o says Comment posted on March 15th, 2008
patt,
i stand corrected… apparently, there are a few “so called christians” who have also adopted the label of “disciples”…
evidently, this particular group had labeled themselves “disciples” back in the mid-1800s… it is the name of their denomination…
i should have known that all things related to Christ would be up for reinterpretation and redefiniton… so i see that the label “disciples of Christ” has been redefined also… at least for these few folks in this denomination…
i checked out this group and went to a couple of their websites… this denomination is definitely worldly! and they embrace ecumenism and new age doctrines… much of what they say is in direct contradiction to what the bible states… they do not have an official doctrinal statement because apparently anything goes and “each person is free to explore and interpret the scriptures according to their OWN reason and experiences”… (i think i’ve already covered that the Word of God is of NO private interpretation)
and when i say anything goes in this church, i mean anything goes… some believe in abortion, some believe in gay marriage (according to their own websites!)…
this is the kind of church/denomination that will help to usher in the one world religion!… in fact, this denomination was a charter partner in the formation of the world council of churches and the national council of churches… their focus is social, political, and economic “justice” (they are much more concerned about immigration, poverty, racism, the environment, the war in iraq, etc. than they are with the things of Jesus Christ)…
their president and general minister, sharon e. watkins states in a letter dated 2/29/2008, that she “devotes a lot of time to ecumenical involvements”… the goal of their “reconcilliation ministry” is to “fight the primary causes of racism in north america” =:~o (the bible states that we are given the ministry of reconcilliation in order to reconcile people back to GOD)… these folks have REDEFINED the ministry of reconcilliation!
they also hold annual “spirituality and psychotherapy” conferences… and each year, they hold an “earth day” through their “eco-justice/environmental ministries”… this year the theme of “earth sunday” is “the poverty of global climate change” and it will be held on april 27th… further, under this eco-justice/environmental ministry, there are many programs “to help congregations ‘go green’ and become certified as ‘green sanctuaries’”… they state that this “green program” is “broad enough that theological differences between “faith communities” won’t matter”… no, theology doesn’t matter at all to these folks!
this group twists scripture to fit their own agenda… just one example: one of their social activist preachers said that “Jesus 1st priority is the plight of the poor” and then he went on to talk about his agenda concerning global poverty… he also said that “if the gospel message does not address the problems of the poor, then it’s not the gospel” =:~o
he’s REDEFINING what the gospel is!
i could say a lot more about these so called “disciples of Christ” which are NOT disciples of Jesus Christ at all (by their fruits you shall know them), but i think i’ve said enough… LOL
they are attempting to redefine what true christianity is by redefining many components of christianity (including the gospel, the ministry of reconcilliation, and the word ‘disciples’ among other things)
truly, narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW there be that find it!!… but broad is the way to destruction!
shalom,
jen-o
jen-o says Comment posted on March 16th, 2008
linda,
i didn’t see obama’s pastor (the “rev.” wright) on hannity and colmes, but i did catch a few of his tirades on video clips on the internet… linda, you asked some good questons… this man spews out hatred and bigotry… and the bible says: “out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks” (matt.12:34, luke 6:45)… so this IS the condition of the “rev.” wright’s heart, and i don’t believe for a minute that obama is unaware of it!… you can’t have a close relationship with someone for 20 years, and then claim to be clueless about who they really are… you’d either have to have NO judgement and reasoning ability OR you have to be LYING…
so which is it?
does obama have no judgement and reasoning ability?
(not exactly a good quality in a president)
OR
is obama a bold faced liar?
(also, not a good quality in a president)
and why would obama lie about this?
to cover up the fact that he DOES know what his “rev.” is about AND agrees with him!
why else would a person continue to have a relationship (for 20 years) with a person like this UNLESS one AGREED with him?
i saw those folks in this church, clapping and raising their hands in agreement with what the “rev.” was saying…
(hey, i couldn’t sit in a church like this and listen to a “pastor” spout such garbage for one hour!)
what fellowship does light have with darkness?
as joy has pointed out, someone searching for the truth is not necessarily going to find it in the churches OR from church leaders… this “church” and its “rev.” are perfect examples of that!… as are most churches since they are laodicean in nature and lukewarm for Jesus… and the leaders of these churches are false prophets and false teachers (which abound in these last days)
which brings me to another question… this false teacher (the rev. wright) is the one who supposedly led obama to Jesus… my question is “which Jesus?”… it is clear to me that the “rev.” wright does NOT know the same Jesus that i know!… so is obama really a christian?… oh, i know he speaks “christianeze” real good and says all the right things, but his actions don’t line up… Jesus said: “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and NOT do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46)
like i said before, narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW there be that find it, but broad is the way to destruction!
and all of this is just evidence of how close we are to the return of Jesus!
come quickly, Lord Jesus!
shalom,
jen-o
Linda says Comment posted on March 19th, 2008
oh, i forgot this one: the rev wright also said that Jesus was oppressed by the white man; i’m sorry, but the KING of kings & LORD of lords CANNOT be oppressed by anyone just as HE cannot be killed by anyone. why would this pastor want to paint our Savior & LORD in any way weak?
obama has attended this church so long he doesn’t see the lies.
the congregation of that church needs a good pastor who will share G-D’s Word with them rather than politic . . . i pray they get one soon, in Christ Jesus name.
Patt says Comment posted on March 20th, 2008
With all the upheaval on the planet today, I do not see how venomous comments support moving forward. When useless criticism comes from the mouths of those who profess to follow the teachings of Christ, they have a particularly strong sting. WWJD? Rightly or wrongly, I hold Christians to a high standard of trying to life a “Christ-like” life. Reverend Wright , in my opinion, went way over the line, but, I think much of the commentary printed here, is in the same vein. To condemn and criticize another does little, except to puff up the ego of the speaker.
In “your own words”:
Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? …the measure you give will be the measure you get… do unto others…love thy neighbor…let he who is without sin.
Blessings
patt
jen-o says Comment posted on March 21st, 2008
patt,
you are comparing our words of WARNING with the “rev.” wright’s words of HATE?!?
=:~o
how is it “venomous” to describe what we see?
we do NOT come from a position of hate, we come from a position of CONCERN!
shalom,
jen-o
jen-o says Comment posted on March 21st, 2008
oh, and patt, why do you (as a non-christian) keep trying to interpret the scripture for us??
i told you before that we have been given the Holy Spirit, and it is the HOLY SPIRIT who teaches us… we are NOT going to listen to a non-christian’s “perspective” on what the scipture means… non-christians frequently mishandle, misapply, and twist the scriptures out of context… but we trust the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth…
shalom,
jen-o
Linda says Comment posted on March 21st, 2008
Patt,
I am sure you have much more education than I do, so I hope this honest attempt to explain something that I hold very dear to my heart won’t become a duel of the minds, because I use much too much white-out to hold a candle to you!
When someone call himself a christian, then he tries his best to have his life reflect Christ to others. Of course we have times of failure in this effort, &
Christ knew we would that’s why HE offers us grace & forgiveness. It’s even more important for someone in the office of a pastor, preacher, etc. to reflect Christ (to whom much is given, much is expected). Because when one’s spirit has been wooed by the Holy Spirit & they start searching for the Truth that will fill that Jesus-shaped hole that G-D placed in their heart, it is important that when they eventually visit a church, they hear the Gospel of Christ which will then make that beautiful, unexplainable connection with their spirit within.
If they visited a church that preached the social gospel, the financial gospel, or the “whatever-the-preacher-comes-up-with-next-that-makes-the- congregation-feel-obligated-to-give” gospel, they will be turned off by the manipulation & vow never to return to church again. Consequently, when christians become aware of a church who claims to be a christian church which is called to teach G-D’s Word & it’s time is spent on rather that the Gospel of Christ, but on things that do nothing to edify G-D, Christ or the Holy Spirit; then we must make a statement. If they want to teach such things, that’s fine, but just don’t proclaim to be a christian church. ( please refer to my post of 3/15 & my questions for the pastor.)
G-D is a G-D of love, mercy, grace & forgiveness; but HE is also a G-D of judgement to those who do not accept HIS gift of salvation through HIS Son Jesus Christ. That’s why we are COMMANDED to reach those who have not yet received Christ, for the Heavenly Father wills that none should perish.
G-D is also a G-D who cannot lie, when words pass over HIS lips, they are final & cannot be changed; so when HE states in the Bible that something is a sin or an abomination, it was then & STILL IS. (G-D is not bound by time so the phrase “that was then, this is now” is irrevelant). So G-D gave us HIS gift of salvation because HE knew no matter how much we wanted, & how much we tried, we are not without sin. ONLY Jesus Christ lived a sinless life.
So, that’s it, Patt. And, anyone can chose not to believe as we do. But what I don’t understand is why we aren’t shown the same respect as the muslim faith; their sharia law is very brutal, they have no tolerance for any jokes made about their faith (yet, it’s ok to put the cross upside down in a glass of urine.), & they have absolutely no tolerance for one’s refusal to become a member of the muslim faith. It may be necessary for the sharia way of life to come to this country before folks will desire G-D’s gift of grace. And that’s not that far fetched of an idea as the banking world is beginning to acknowledge sharia in their business dealings.
Thank you, Patt, for your time & patience reading through my attempted explaination.
Love in Christ Jesus,
Linda
Patt says Comment posted on March 22nd, 2008
Dear Linda:
Your post was very thoughtful and informative. Thank you. I posted not from education, but rather from a feeling of irreverence towards myself and others. There is a vast difference between disagreeing and being disrespectful. When we have a passionate motivation, the line is oft times easily crossed.
I do not disagree with a wanting, a needing, or an obligation to teach others. I am offended in the how. Remember our sweet old grandmothers? Mine used to say: “You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.” I find many of the posts to have quite a bitter edge on them.
When someone tells me they have received Jesus as their savior and salvation, and are part of the “body of Christ”, I take them at their word. That being said, I find the life of Jesus to be exceptional. I have high expectations of those who proclaim to be of Him, or excelling to be like Him. I superimpose Jesus over their words and deeds.
There seems to be a magnanimous quest to “find” God today. Organized religion is being scrutinized and challenged as never before in it’s history. Ancient and indigenous spirituality’s are re-emerging as viable devotions.
As a result, there is a sensitivity around the subject.
I do not know much about Islam. There are extremists. I suspect part of the reason we are mired in Iraq today is because we tried to win a war of ideology with weapons. I also believe that if we withdraw our troops from their sacred places it will be a step towards calming their infuriation.
What jumped out at me regarding you statement about the difference in the degree of respect for Christians vs Muslims, are the words…no tolerance. Previously, when I opined that tolerance was needed in the world today, I was criticized and quickly set straight. I still stand by that opinion, no matter who it is applied to, myself included.
Many of us are doing all that we can to grow in spirit. All paths have merit. We should not shy from discussion, but must remember that learning comes when cooler heads pervail.
Namaste`
patt
Linda says Comment posted on March 23rd, 2008
FYI:
Treasury Department Making Special
Agreements With Islam Over Vital U.S. Investments – Bill Wilson
http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?mcat=1&idx=102320&showsubj=1&rtn=/index.html
“. . . By entering into agreements, as the Treasury Department has, with Islamic governments, the Treasury Department is under the false assumption that the Islamists will deal honestly according to the agreements. Did the United States expect Hitler to abide by agreements? Did the United States expect the Soviet Union to abide by agreements? If we did, we were highly disappointed. Even today, North Korea, Iran, China, Syria, Russia, and many others are not trustworthy in compliance with agreements. This is because they operate on a different set of standards than does the United States.
It is folly to think that countries that do not recognize Judeo-Christian values will abide by laws and agreements based on honoring Judeo-Christian laws. And moreover, if this nation is at war with a fascist entity such as Islam, it is foolish to expect that Islam will honor any agreement with America. Oil prices are at record levels for one reason—Islam is draining the United States of its middle class and using the money to buy key United States businesses that control wealth and wealth distribution. 1st Corinthians 15:33 says, “Be not deceived: evil companionship corrupts good moral habits.†America is breaking its covenant with God by supporting and trusting Islam. “
Joy B. says Comment posted on March 24th, 2008
Tolerance when it comes to personal relationships is a positive thing. Tolerance when it comes to “truth” is a travesty!
joy
Patt says Comment posted on March 24th, 2008
Joy:
How do we live in this world together if not by tolerance? The muslim “truth” is as true for them as your “truth” is for you. 1000 years ago Christians fought the war of intolerance, and called it the Crusades. Today the Muslims are returning the favor, and call it Jihad.
patt
Linda says Comment posted on March 25th, 2008
Thank you, Joy!
Joy B. says Comment posted on March 25th, 2008
But, all paths do not have merit. Jesus says he is the only path to God.
joy
Patt says Comment posted on March 25th, 2008
“But, all paths do not have merit. Jesus says he is the only path to God. ”
Well, here’s the rub. Christianity comprises around 30% of the global population. Of that 30% there are approximately 34,000 different “sects” that identify themselves as Christian. Of this number a small percentage require one must be “born again” to be considered Christian. On the whole, Christianity is on the decline. Islam is ranked #2 at around 19% of the global population and is growing. “No religion ” comes in at the #4 position, but that number is also dropping.
So, back to how do we all live on this earth when we have different versions of “truth” and each of us convinced we have the real/right “truth?” Do we continue to line up on opposite sides, holler “liar, liar” and lob bombs at one another? Again, WWJD?
patt
Joy B. says Comment posted on March 25th, 2008
Patt,
It is not discrimination to proclaim the Truth about Jesus and God. I can respect and accept that other people believe different than me, but it is not intolerant to say I disagree with them and to say what I believe to be the truth. Some consider the view that one religion is true and all others false, is somehow discrimination. They believe this absolute truth claim is intolerant. Do they really hold the tolerant position? Or are they promoting one religious position – possibly agnosticism – in order to marginalize all the others? Or are they simply attempting to marginalize Christianity? No limits to tolerance can result not only in the acceptance and promotion of aberrant behavior in a society, but it can also lead to an erosion of the basis for fighting oppression and violent crimes, such as murder. Excessive tolerance can become a form of oppression (i.e. political correctness). What one person may view as discrimination or intolerance, another may consider discernment. The Bible encourages discernment.
There are very significant differences between the religious systems. They cannot all be right. Friction and hostilities arise from these differences. Jesus is a divider of people in spiritual matters. Jesus said, “Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.†(Luke 12:51) He understood that division was inevitable when some choose to follow him, while others reject him.
The Bible promotes spreading the truth. However unlike Islam, it is against forced conversions. I suspect this to be more likely behind Islamic Jihad.
Joy
jen-o says Comment posted on March 26th, 2008
joy,
we have had this VERY SAME discussion with patt LAST MAY (2007)!!
she has raised these same issues repeatedly since then, and we have answered them REPEATEDLY…
(gee, i wish remnant was around… he’d be able to find that link)
patt adheres to the “all roads lead to rome” theory… problem is: not all of us want to go to rome!… some of us want to go to heaven, and all roads do NOT lead to heaven!!
patt may toss around some “biblical” language, but she does not believe that Jesus told the truth when he said: “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father, BUT through Me.”
(patt seems to have a real problem with THAT biblical statement)
joy, just giving you a heads up… i wish someone could find the thread… then, you wouldn’t have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak… :~)
btw, patt, Jesus definitely WOULD call those who lie and deceive people “liars” and He DID… perhaps, you should read some of the statements He made to the pharisees and scribes…
shalom to all,
jen-o
Patt says Comment posted on March 26th, 2008
When religious tolerance is practiced, all people enjoy the freedom to pursue their religious traditions without oppression , discrimination, or demonization.
Religious tolerance does not require that we believe all religions are equal, or agree with any or all of the tenets of all religions.
When “truth” is elitist and condemning it cannot, of itself , be tolerant.
“The need of the moment is not one religion, but mutual respect and tolerance of the devotees of the different religions” Mahatma Gandhi
May you find blessings of innerpeace from the practice of your religious/spiritual tradition.
patt
Linda says Comment posted on March 26th, 2008
Joy,
RE: “joy, just giving you a heads up… i wish someone could find the thread… then, you wouldn’t have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak… :~)”
Try these on for size:
http://www.inthedays.com/days-of-lot/clinton-obama-other-dems-favor-repealing-part-of-doma/#comments
http://www.inthedays.com/days-of-lot/san-diegos-gay-agenda-targets-youth/#comments
Patt stops by from time to time & I, as well as others, have discussed many things with her.
I pray our precious Savior will reveal HIMSELF & HIS love to her, in HIS name.
jen-o says Comment posted on March 26th, 2008
dear joy,
thank you for your clear and succinct post that points out the flaws of tolerance!
and thank you for pointing out that complete and total tolerance leads to the acceptance and promotion of aberrant behavior while becoming a form of oppression and eroding justice…
(i just think that bears repeating)
:~)
thank you, dear sister,
jen-o
Patt says Comment posted on March 27th, 2008
Jeno
“and thank you for pointing out that complete and total tolerance leads to the acceptance and promotion of aberrant behavior while becoming a form of oppression and eroding justice…”
…. and total and complete absence of tolerance leads to????
As John Rawls wrote:…. the intolerant must be tolerated but only insofar as they do not endanger the tolerant society and its institutions.
shlama,
patt
Linda says Comment posted on March 27th, 2008
There is only ONE source of innerpeace: CHRIST JESUS, period.
There are only 2 groups of people on this planet: those who accept HIM as their Savior & those who don’t.
ANYTHING ELSE is a lie & will eventually leave one EMPTY.
So IT was said, so IT was written, so IT is.
Joy B. says Comment posted on March 27th, 2008
Patt,
Tolerance today has come to mean “you must believe a certain way or you are deemed intolerantâ€. You must believe all religions lead to god or you are intolerant. Christians are to cede the truth of the Bible for what man deems as truth or they will be viewed as being intolerant, pro-war, etc., or in this case, lobbing bombs. Tolerance has become the 21st century tool for oppression.
As jen-o said to you in a previous post:
p.s. i do feel this is such an apropos example of how christians will be persecuted for standing up for what they believe… afterall, if you call my assertions (speech) aggressive, then it will not be such a big leap to call my speech “hatefulâ€â€¦ and “hate speechâ€, as we all know, is a crime… so, i will be labeled a “hate speech†criminal for repeating what the bible says…
This is how I expect the silencing of Christians to take place. Jesus told us we would be hated because of him. We cannot allow non-Christians, whether they be the deceived or the deceivers, to redefine Christianity. We must insist the “truth” be told, whether you find it elitist or its exclusivity intolerant.
I believe Christians must stand steadfast of the truth from the Bible because the eternal lives of millions (possibly billions) of people are at stake.
May you find the truth and get a ticket north of Rome!
Joy
Joy B. says Comment posted on March 27th, 2008
jen-o,
Thanks. I went to the subject that had the most posts (99) and scanned over them – very enlightening.
Joy
Joy B. says Comment posted on March 27th, 2008
jen-o,
Correction – I went to the May 2007 posts and looked for the one with the most comments (99). Thanks.
Joy
Linda says Comment posted on March 27th, 2008
For anyone who cares to learn a little more about the muslim religion:
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/326585.aspx
Joy B. says Comment posted on March 28th, 2008
Linda,
Thanks for the links. I will check them out.
Joy
Patt says Comment posted on March 28th, 2008
Joy
Religious tolerance has nothing to do with “believing in a certain way.” It merely asks you to allow others to pray and practice as THEY choose , and you should expect them to respect you in return. Tolerance does not require do as I do, do as I say. Being steadfast in one’s belief does not exclude tolerance.
Christianity has been redefined since its beginning. Groups of Christians gathered and formed “churches” . A small dissenting group forms that disagrees with the main group and splinters off to form its own church. Thus the thirty some thousand redefined Christian groups/churches today.
Religious extremism is revisiting us in the world today. The Jihad in essence is the unfinished business of the Crusades. Both represent the total absence of tolerance. It is also an opportunity to re-solve the same conundrum that produced the Crusades. We could have learned that unfettered force creates more of the same, and does nothing to change, only suppress an ideology. So we will lob bombs until enough people have died, and we find a different solution.
Can you give examples of how Christians in the US being silenced today? As I read the posts her, I conclude , if there is a silencing, it is an inside, rather than outside job. Christians are condemning each other. Personally, I disagree with your perceptions of truth, but please, shout them to the rooftops, live them to the best of your ability. I can TOLERATE that.
Blessings for both/and ; not either/or,
patt
Linda says Comment posted on March 28th, 2008
RE: “Christianity has been redefined since its beginning.”
And Hinduism, Muslim, Buddhism, Shintoism, Judaism, Taoism, Confucianism, etc., can all claim that they teach today EXACTLY what was taught since inception?
Patt,
You continually call for tolerance, but you have done a mighty fine job of mocking my faith.
Excuse us for wanting to share G-D’s Truth with others (as we are commanded to do).
During the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, when the Indonesians saw the water recede from the beach, from personal experience, they knew trouble was ahead & sought higher ground. Many tourists, however, did not heed the signs; instead, they chose to relax on the beach, enjoy the sun & take another sip of that colorful, tropical drink.
Did the islanders use the wrong method to warn them?
G-D gave us free will to do with it as we chose; but HE also gave us a book warning so we can make the right choice.
jen-o says Comment posted on March 29th, 2008
patt wrote”
“Religious tolerance has nothing to do with “believing in a certain way.†”
yes it does, patt… under the banner of “religious tolerance”, people are allowed to believe everything under the sun EXCEPT for a literal translation of the bible…
a literal belief in the bible is NOT allowed (not tolerated) under “religious tolerance”… the “world” may be tolerant of everything else… but christians who believe in “a certain way” (which included holding a biblical worldview) are to be SILENCED…
you want specific examples of this?
google “christian persecution”
it is RAMPANT and widespread throughout the world!
check out “voice of the martyrs”
you think it’s not happening in the good ole U.S. of A.?
think again…
a christian was ARRESTED last october in salem, mass. for speaking about the gospel of Jesus Christ on a public street…
christians were ARRESTED (and CONVICTED) last june in elmira, ny for praying in a public park…
yes, this IS happening in america!
(these are only 2 examples)
also, james dobson’s christian radio program is now reviewing and editing its broadcasts to avoid complications with “hate crimes” laws…
you can talk about “tolerance” all you want… there is no “tolerance” for christianity!
shalom,
jen-o
Patt says Comment posted on March 30th, 2008
Linda:
“And Hinduism, Muslim, Buddhism, Shintoism, Judaism, Taoism, Confucianism, etc., can all claim that they teach today EXACTLY what was taught since inception?” I thought we were discussing Christianity here, but since you asked—I don’t know. I imagine they have evolved over the many thousand years but still retain their core tenets, just as Christianity has.
I have always espoused that you fully embrace your faith, shout it to the world, proseltyze to all the unbelievers. I have never asked that you not share your faith as you think you are commanded . I do ask that you render the same respect for all humans to do the same. If you feel tolerance is mocking behavior, that is your mindset, not mine.
As for the tsunami, all the animals, and ONE ancient indiginous tribe, the Jarawa, escaped all injury. The animals followed their instincts. The tribe followed their pagan beliefs and knowledge of nature and the elements and removed themselves from harms way. The proof is in the pudding that they followed the right warning method. Would they have had the same results if they had relied on “the book” to make their choice?
JENO
“under the banner of “religious toleranceâ€, people are allowed to believe everything under the sun EXCEPT for a literal translation of the bible…”
Opinion, not fact. Religious tolerance allows for all beliefs under the sun, AND literal translation of the bible.
The 2 cases of arrests in the US are understandable. In both instances, Mr Marcavage, and the group in NY put themselves in the middle of a gathering where they could have been seriously injured if the crowd got out of control. Social and political activists get arrested all the time , for the same reason. The other of course is —they become a public nusiance—and are removed. The public does have a right to gather and not to be attacked, be it verbally or physically. In the greater picture of social arrests, I should think arrests for the silencing of literal bible translators is a very small. All of us who publically protest are willing to be martyrs for our cause. Martyring requires suffering, or else you are a rebel— fighting against, or a warrior— fighting to retain and protect. Archetypal behavior is very specific.
Progress must be taking place if James Dobson is editing himslef. Let us all remember when he led the Christian Right down the deceptive path to George W Bush? Dobson tried to bring power to truth not truth to power, he did it, but we all have paid. Now he is pouting because no one listened to him this year, and McCain got the nomination.
“you can talk about “tolerance†all you want… there is no “tolerance†for christianity!”
—-because it is a law of attraction….like attracts like; I AM that I AM; as a man thinketh….so he is. You have said it here: you will not tolerate tolerance, therefore you will receive intolerance.
Peace to you too,
patt
Joy B. says Comment posted on March 31st, 2008
Patt wrote:
When “truth†is elitist and condemning it cannot, of itself , be tolerant.
This is a pretty intolerant statement in and of itself.
Pat wrote:
Personally, I disagree with your perceptions of truth, but please, shout them to the rooftops, live them to the best of your ability. I can TOLERATE that.
Actually, we want more than to shout the truth from our rooftops. We want to stand along side people refering to themselves as New Age Christians, etc. and say, “Liar, Liar! These people are deceiving you!
Patt,
I notice when you talk about your faith, it appears to focus on what it does for you and how it makes you feel. Maybe this is why you have a more difficult time relating to our wanting to spread the word. Our faith is not all about us. We are not content that we have the Northbound ticket. We also want others to seize that opportunity.
Joy
Joy B. says Comment posted on April 01st, 2008
Patt,
Please tell me how Christians have been intolerant?
Joy
Patt says Comment posted on April 01st, 2008
Joy:
We must have been posting at the same time. I just read your last:
“Please tell me how Christians have been intolerant?”
As stated in a earlier post, religious beliefs and spiritual practices are under going scrutiny as never before, and there is a lot of personal sensitivity around this subject. The very fact that we separate ourselves by defining “yours”/”mine” is an interesting topic in and of itself.
I suspect that in the history of ALL spiritual/religious traditions there has been intolerance of one kind or another, but Christianity is the topic here, I share some of my opinions. It is the theism of exclusion vs inclusion ,the uniqueness of the bible as the only truth, and that Jesus preached a message of instead of– rather than in addition to, that I cannot grasp.
If you trace the history, Christianity has several eras of profound intolerance. I have been accused of just wanting to see the love and goodness of Jesus and his message, not the stern destroyer, this is true. I feel Jesus came here with a message for the heart—love, compassion, forgiveness in order to “download” a higher consciousness to replace the code of Hammurabi which permeates the Hebrew bible. . If we would have encoded the Christ consciousness on our individual “hard drives” 2000 years ago, we ,no doubt, could have avoided most of christianity’s bleak history of heretical defamation, the inquisition, the crusades, and the torture and deaths that became their legacy.
In it’s beginning, paganism, judaism, and, many groups following the message of Jesus co-existed. Of these, each apostle spoke to the masses differently. Some were Paulites, some Thomasites, some liked how James expressed the message, and so on. In it’s infancy, christianity was developing it’s version, thru Jesus’s teachings, of what lies at the heart of all other spiritual traditions. In order to reach followers, and draw them in, many hebrew and pagan tenets were incorporated. When the idea to merge into only one interpretation surfaced, judgements of heresy erupted, and resulted in a vital part of christian theory going underground. The resurfacing of ancient scrolls , whose writings parallel those canonized in the bible, have re-opened the debate of elite vs unification, and the true meaning of unconditional love.
In one sense, we are at the same level as where we left off. I’m right, you’re wrong, and I demonize and denounce any and everything you say. History has proved, this was an incomplete and unsatisfactory solution. So now we have another opportunity to shape our destiny. We have the choice to repeat the past, to shout liar, liar, or we can choose another way.
Religious tolerance is a solution that is being re-embraced. The inquisition/ heresy, the crusades/jihad are elements of human development that represent a tangible expression of where intolerance leads.. We can kill each other off, either physically or metaphorically, or we can live and let live. We can adopt the message of love and forgiveness, or not. One thing for sure, we cannot remain static.
Blessings for courage in these times of chaos,
p
Linda says Comment posted on April 01st, 2008
Patt,
I am sorry that I have let myself become short with you. I will pray that the
Holy Spirit will reveal G-D’s Truth & Jesus’ love to you.
May G-D bless you always,
Linda
jen-o says Comment posted on April 01st, 2008
patt,
i only cited 2 cases… that doesn’t mean there are only 2 cases of christian persecution in america…
like i said, put “christian persecution in america” into a search engine, and check it out for yourself…
on one website alone (Alliance Defense Fund), you can scroll thru a list of 1,473 items about christian persecution in america, and hundreds of them are about free speech and freedom of expression…
if you really want to see know widespread this is, then check out christian persecution on a global level… many people pay with their lives for the “crime” of being a christian…
Patt says Comment posted on April 02nd, 2008
Dear Jeno:
I realize there are many more cases than the 2 you cited. It was not my intention ot marginalize the situation. The problem does not lie in being steadfast and speaking your christian beliefs. The problem is not “coming out of the closet” and proclaiming your gender identity. The problem is not speaking out against oppression. The problem is not standing up to a government out of control with power. The problem is simply HATE, yours, mine, and the collective. Taking on the victim role may gain attention, but that’s about all. Victims will always blame. Something, someone is always at fault.
Personal courage has no space to blossom in the atmosphere of blame. We can make a difference in society if we just pay attention to when we are acting hateful, speaking hateful, thinking hateful. When we become aware of our own negative behavior we can become accountable for it.
Hate crimes , no matter the target, will not disappear by passing a law. It may take generations to totally rid the world of hate, but you and I, and the collective you and I, can begin right now. The choice is ours.
Blessings for peace within and peace without,
patt
Joy B. says Comment posted on April 02nd, 2008
The Bible forbids both forced conversions and taking up a sword to further Christianity. Our “truth war†is a war to be fought with words. While wars may have been started by people calling themselves Christians, they were not necessarily started by true Christians. Jen-o has expounded on this difference earlier. President George Bush is a perfect example of this. He proclaims to be a Christian, but in reality, he is an evil little man who has used Christianity to get elected and gain power. In fact, his religious views more mirror yours. He believes all religions worship the same god and thus, all religions lead to god.
You wrote:
It is the theism of exclusion vs inclusion ,the uniqueness of the bible as the only truth, and that Jesus preached a message of instead of– rather than in addition to, that I cannot grasp.
You are advocating that there should be no debate or criticism on topics; otherwise we are intolerant for this friction we create. The supposed objective is for everyone to just get along. There are three major problems with this view.
1. What you are really promoting is tyranny. Welcome brave new world. Words like tolerance, sensitivity, and inclusiveness are simply cloaked code words for repression. As we watch our country march toward totalitarianism, it is the people with your views, which are ushering it in. These code words are not only being used to silence and shame Christians into submission; they are also being used to silence opposition to the promotion and acceptance of aberrant behavior. I find it interesting those calling themselves New Age Christians; have stated that those not accepting your brand of tolerance and inclusion will have to be removed from the planet.
2. You are basically trying to create heaven on Earth. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this Earth. Those of us that are Christians have a role to play in doing what we can to alleviate the suffering of the poor and the lost. But, our primary focus has to be in providing the truth to people.
3. Your way leads people to the gate that is wide.
I do not know if you are simply deceived, Pat, or are actually a deceiver. I am beginning to suspect that you visit this site simply to promote doubt in some Christians by attempting to shame them with indictments of intolerance. Either case, I pray for mercy for you.
We do not understand your views and vice versa because your views are of this world. And ours are not.
I am here not for tolerance, sensitivity, nor inclusiveness. I am here to do my part to bring division, just as my savior, Jesus brought.
I now shake the dust from my sandals.
LORI says Comment posted on June 09th, 2008
hey david, Dont you realize by putting Obama in the presidential seat that you are not voting the way a christian would. Obama is the anit-christ! You claim to be christian but if vote from someone who is not a christian you are a hipocrit. McCain is a much better candidate for president. Open your eyes.