This November, I’m voting christian

The United States has been in church for nearly a year, now, preached to, proselytized, evangelized, testified to by one presidential candidate after another. It seems to be working, on me at least. I’ve come to a decision. I’m going to vote for a christian.

Lovers of the Truth

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12


“…upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity…”
—Luke 21:25

How is this campaign different from all others? There is this: Never before in American political history have so many Jews gone to so much trouble to try to disprove a candidate’s assertions that he is a true Christian.

And there is this: Never before have there been serious discussions among Christian evangelicals over whether Mormonism is a genuinely Christian faith, and, therefore, if Mitt Romney could be seen to be genuinely Christian enough for the office of the presidency.

So pervasive is the issue of personal faith and the quality of one’s Christianity, that an online God-o-Meter has been set up to make order of where candidates stand on the faith-based charges and counter-charges clouding the political firmament.

No one is immune. When John McCain said early on in the campaign that America was established as a Christian nation, he didn’t yet know how right he was.

A recent Clinton campaign press release declared that “Senator Clinton, a United Methodist, has a strong connection with people of faith as demonstrated by her overwhelming support from Catholic and evangelical voters.” Mike Huckabee has spoken of himself as a victim of the “soft bigotry” of the media for overemphasizing his status as an ordained Baptist preacher. Barack Obama staffers have been forced to labor mightily to counter rumor mongering labeling him a closet Muslim.

No one is immune. Not even the expatriate, living in a self-declared Jewish state in the very heart of the Muslim world. Accordingly, this November, I’m voting christian.

I am not about to demand that my candidate be the most consistent of church-goers. My candidate need not believe in Church theology or politics.

This is what I want from my candidate: Emulate Jesus. Heal. Be a true christian. Act to heal a country which is wounded and cleft to its core.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. (Matthew 5:44)

The message of loving one’s enemies is not weakness, but wisdom. It says, do all you can to talk before opening fire. If forced to open fire, be judicious in its application. Explore every opportunity to reopen talks while fighting, and to resolve hostilities through agreement.

If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also (Matthew 5:39)

Emulate Jesus. Know the difference between self-defense and vengeance.
The message of the turned cheek is not appeasement. It is resoluteness in the face of provocation. It is to consider one’s actions with care, to consider the consequences of one’s planned reactions as seriously as the depth of the injury which prompted them.

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord. To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.’ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (Romans 12:19-21)

“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal. (Matthew 6:19)

Emulate Jesus. Heal. Reconsider the sanctity of material wealth. Reconsider the concentration of treasure in the hands of the very few. Reconsider the anointment of oil, and how that has come back only to ruin the nation, the economy, the world, how it has fueled and lubricated terrorism, how it has enriched despots. Enshrine not tax cuts and shelters only for those whose treasures are already beyond mortal use.

Disdain not nor dismiss the poor among you, the immigrant, the ghetto child, the ill and infirm and aging for whom health care is beyond reach, for Jesus and those he ministered to, were those as well.

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ (Matthew 25:35-6)

Emulate Jesus. Place the good of humanity and the world above the good of one’s standing on the Forbes 400. Hear Jesus’ message: “He speaks more about the poor than about prayer,” says Pastor Mel Williams of Durham, North Carolina. “Jesus tells us in Matthew 25 that we will be judged not by our piety, but by how we treat the poor.”

A christian should not equate insensitivity, rigidity, voraciousness, profligacy, resort to violence, conspicuous consumption, or the cult of firearms, with true manhood, nor with love of country, nor with sense of self.

If you would be pro-life, fight the death penalty and the right to keep handguns within the grasp of children, with the same fervor with which you fight abortion.

If you would be pro-life, promote public education, employment opportunity, and support for single parenting with that same fervor.

Do you really believe that if Jesus were alive today, he would concern himself with constitutional bans on gay marriage and tenacious defense of the right to own assault weapons?

Someday, America may truly be able to call itself a christian country. But only if it pays more attention to the words and the works of Jesus, and less to those who speak with anger, bitterness, vengeance, and exclusionism, in his name.

  1. Tupor, 24 February, 2008

    Had me until:

    “Enshrine not tax cuts and shelters only for those whose treasures are already beyond mortal use. ”

    Got it. Raving liberal in sheep’s clothing. Did you know the Bush tax cuts lowered the liability on the poorest tax paying class from 15% to 10%? I assure you a 33% cut in tax liability means a lot more to a person making little money, than to any tax cut of any amount to a person “whose treasures are already beyond mortal use”. I didn’t say I like everything he does. I don’t. But please, let’s keep it to the facts, if we are purporting to be speaking on facts.

    The problem is the “spend yourself rich” mentality. This society, both parties, espouses this sin. A Godly person follows God’s ways of saving… of sowing, then reaping. If people stop spending, the whole corrupt machine stops running. Those are the facts, and if any of these parties-in-power opposes this current financial system… never mind. they won’t. They haven’t, for decades. The curent bipartsian tax rebate continues the cycle.

    Educate yourself on the matter of “spend yourself rich”:

    “Do you really believe that if Jesus were alive today, he would concern himself with constitutional bans on gay marriage”

    Jesus IS alive today. Further, He already has concerned Himself with a ban on Gay marriage.

    Leviticus 18:22
    You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

    I’m disappointed to see such an article on the IntheDays site. It would seem you are saying this author is a “lover of truth”. Clearly not. In addition to a lack of true understanding of the issues at hand, the author goes as far as to belittle opposing infant genocide with fervor. Public education? Sure sounds good. Let’s do it. I, however do tend to feel a little more strongly about severing the arms, legs, and heads from infants, moreso than the very real need for improved teacher salaries. Apples and oranges, as it were.

  2. Ernest Gregoire, 25 February, 2008

    Smoke Screen

    The author of this piece is a liberal. He confuses “Right to Life” with “Capital Punishment,” a typical leftist trick.

    This entire article is a Smoke Screen!
    Read it with discernment!

    It does not matter who you vote for this fall.

    If Republicans are elected, the country suffers “The Death of a Thousand Cuts.” If Democrats are elected the country is decapitated.

    Either way, we loose!

    It is far better to discern the times.

    God will have his way, and prophecy will be fulfilled no matter who is elected.

    The only difference will be the degree of suffering that we must bear before Jesus Christ comes for His Church.

    I turn my LPR (Lost Person Radar) on every morning. My goal is to take as many souls with us in the Rapture as possible.

    We are very close!


  3. Tupor, 25 February, 2008

    “It does not matter who you vote for this fall.”

    That is simply not true, and it is a very irresponsible mindset. We see Paul using his rights as a Roman citizen more than once in the Scripture. The notion that God is soverign and as such we shouldn’t care about voting, is as unreasonable as saying God is soverign, and as such we shouldn’t care about evangelism. You would not dismiss evangelism saying “ah well, God will save who he wants”. You should not dismiss your citizen’s rights saying “ah well, God will put in office who He wants”. His people have a role to play in accomplishing His will. The church needs to WAKE UP on the use of their rights.

    The Lord will hold you accountable for how you use your rights as a citizen. To whom much is given, much is expected, and not every citizen of every natio has such rights. I hope you (all) choose toward the end of furthering His purposes. Headless babies, I assure you, is not His will, for one stark example of how your rights as a citizen might be best used.

    Maranatha indeed.

  4. Mike, 26 February, 2008

    It is surprising to find this on ITD! Biblically literate Christians ought to be discerning enough to know that we’ve endlessly confused the roles of the Church and government. Government is ordained to restrain evil and protect. The Church was given the mandate of societal change, which includes caring for the poor. We’ve raised up an idol of American Democracy and put our hope in it to save the world. It can’t and won’t because people, despite what Humanists teach, are sinners. Let’s vote for a candidate who’ll work hard to restore the government to it’s proper role and size and who’ll free the Church to do what God has called it to do.

  5. Remnant, 26 February, 2008

    The worship of Ism

    etc. ism

    Psa. 106:36 And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.

    Careful conversation with any member of the above ism’s and in a few minutes you will come to realize that these people do not worship G_D, but that they worship their church or institution. Many Christians confuse and intertwine Conservatism with Christianity This is a false doctrine!

    Patriotism and Conservatism are ism’s like anything other ism, in careful study of the Word. I believe we are to be in this world not of it, to obey G_D rather than men (Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.) including, elected officials when their laws contradict G_D’s Laws. We are to pay our protection money to the mob, oops that’s pay our taxes to the legal mob! But that’s about it. To many “christians”, politics and conservatism have become an Idol. Ex. 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    The talking Heads on the radio are the priests and shrine keepers. Most of these talk radio host’s both left and right are just shills or temple prostitutes and if you listen to them long enough you will find they are just pandering to the crowd. And if you listen enough, you become one of the crowd. The raw hate filled derision toward those with opposing views is anything but G_Dly. I have in the past, been accused of being so conservative that I make Rush Limbaugh look like a limp wrist-ed piano player in a gay bar.

    I know many professing Christians who don’t mind missing church. But G_D forbid they miss the radio shows, (Gotta get my Rush and have my ears tickled) from morning to night they listen to the drivel of the airwaves. It’s as bad as the “christians” and I use the term loosely who listen to TBN. 2Kings 17:12 For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing.

    Keeping their focus on this world, is a distraction from hearing G_D. It’s all vanity and idolatry. G_D is in control every nanosecond. He will place upon the throne whom He pleases. Prov. 8:15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. Dan. 2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

    “Although He lived in a politically charged environment, Jesus never aligned Himself or His message with political causes or parties. Jesus simply observed and examined political events in light of biblical prophecy, particularly The Book of Daniel, and in passages such as Matthew 23&24 He prophetically taught the outcome of such events, both of 70 AD and eschatologically, to His followers.” Jacob Prasch

    If we claim to be Followers of Jesus should we not see the signs in the headlines, and keep our lamps filled with oil and the wicks trimmed! Or are you so lost as to believe that your Idols (politics and patriotism) are going to allow you to change things. Are you going to build the Kingdom of G_D here so your Anti-Christ will come for as Jesus said in (through all your patri-idiot haze you do remember Jesus don’t you?) John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

    As a former “Political Junkie”, I wasted a great deal of time waving the flag and screaming about who was going to defeat the Hilary’s and Obamas of the past, and who to support that really had G_Dly Values. (Remember Jimmy Carter, G. W. Bush, both professing to be “Born Again”. (Both becoming a disappointment if not out right traitors to their Lord and Savior). The time I wasted could have been better spent witnessing to the lost. (some of them my own family). Well Mr. Patriot that flag you’re waving won’t get you into heaven. And that righteous indignation won’t get your family saved.

    I wasted more time and energy and compromised myself on top of it, by voting for the lesser of two evils. Forgetting that evil is evil whether greater or lesser.

    Governments don’t get saved, people do, and the falling away to political and patriotic Idolatry is rampant. I grieve for the lost and fallen, and I pray that they find Messiah. But Narrow is the gate, etc.

    We must remember whom ever G_D places in the White House, Liberal or Conservative, G_D is using them for His purpose. We may not understand it, but then we are told. “Is. 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.” Our prayers should be “Thy will not my will” and yes we should pray for whom ever G_D choses for our leader, as well as for all the leaders of other countries.

    Whom to vote for, taking into consideration that even though I have been saved, I must still account to G_D for all my action’s as a Christian. How can I go to my G_D and say I chose the lessor of evil.

    Although he has yet to announce his candidacy I believe G_D has raised up Bill Koenig for such a time as this. I believe that we will se an announcement within the next month. As an Independent, is he elect-able? Most likely not. I do believe that G_D is watching his people and how they vote, will they stand up for righteousness, or, will they once again compromise. James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

    I ask you to remember the letter to the church of Ephesus Rev. 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Rev. 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

    Christians do not have a president, We have the King of Kings and his Kingdom is not of this earth!

    Just Passing through,
    In Messiah

  6. Tupor, 27 February, 2008

    Here is information I encourage anyone to discuss with your pastor regarding U.S. politics if you feel your church is being passive on important social / voting issues.

    This is from Roger Byron, a staff attorney at LLI. I had asked about why a church seems so restricted, but a group like the AFA is free (thankfully) to attack the worst social issues. Here is the response I got:

    There is a lot of misinformation out there concerning what a church can and cannot do in the political process. A church is a 501(c)3 nonprofit, the same as the AFA.

    There are only two hard and fast rules for 501(c)3s, including churches:

    1) They cannot endorse or oppose a particular candidate.

    2) They cannot contribute money to or raise money for a particular candidate.

    With respect to speaking plainly about issues, a church (and any 501(c)3) may do whatever it wants. The only limitation on issue advocacy is that it cannot make up a substantial part of the church’s activities, which means it has to be less than 15% of a church’s activities and/or funds. Below are some common questions and answers, geared toward a church’s involvement in a wet/dry election:

    1) Can the church put up banners, etc., against voting the community wet?

    Yes. This is called issue advocacy, and a church is completely free to do this. The only limitation on issue advocacy is that it cannot make up a ?ubstantial part of the church’s activities, which means that it has to be less than 15% of a church’s activities or funds.

    What a church may NOT do is take any action that could be perceived as supporting or opposing a particular candidate, nor may a church give any money to a particular candidate.

    2) Can the church speak from pulpit against voting the community wet?

    Yes. This is also issue advocacy, and a church is completely free to do this. The only limitation on issue advocacy is that it cannot make up a substantial part of the church’s activities, which means that it has to be less than 15% of a church’s activities or funds.

    3) Can the church run an ad in the local paper against making the county wet?

    Yes. Once again, this is issue advocacy, and a church is completely free to do this. In fact, this exact situation was described and ruled upon by the IRS this past June in Revenue Ruling 2007-41. The only limitation on issue advocacy is that it cannot make up a substantial part of the church’s activities, which means that it has to be less than 15% of a church’s activities or funds.

    In fact, the church could take out a radio ad against voting the county wet. Again, the only limitation is the substantial part test.

    Jeremiah 18:7-10

    7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 *****and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.****

    That’s where we are in the U.S. (verse 10), but the Lord hasn’t taken His hand of protection off us yet. Lord have mercy on us while we (a few of us anyway) try to stir up national repentance.

    Sleeping-apathetic-church repentance, more like!

    Psalm 33:12
    Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance.

    You do not need a theology degree to figure out the “math” involved for the nation whose God ISN’T the Lord.

    As for those of you that would sit on your hands and not vote thoughtfully or correctly, you must be at a loss to explain Paul’s use of his Roman citizenship in appealing to Caesar in Acts 25, or his insistance that his Roman citizenship be accounted for in Acts 16. Why did he do those things if you believe use of your citizen’s rights is a sinful waste of time? Did the Apostle Paul miss out on the enlightenment you believe yourself to have in choosing apathy over action?

    All of that talk about democracy saving someone is utter nonsense. There’s a world of difference in thinking a cecular government is saving anyone, and in complete failure in stewardship of your citizen’s rights as some of you would advocate. Yes, it IS a stewardship issue. If you have rights, USE THEM as Paul did. If you choose to waste the opportunity to influence this society for Christ to the end of Psalm 33:12 by your apathy, and I assure you, you will give account for it before The Lord Jesus Christ. Christ’s views on the apathetic church are clear in reading His letter to the Laodicean church, if you wish to cite His Revelation letters. You fail to realize that YOU are the Laodicean church if you are indifferent when you should be indignant.

    WAKE UP sleeping church.

  7. Ernest Gregoire, 27 February, 2008

    Dear Tupor,

    You have missed the point of my comment entirely.

    If there were a candidate to vote for that would be good for the c0untry, I would do so. There isn’t!

    Our choices are very bad, bad, and not as bad.

    The underlying theme here is “Bad.” I will probably hold my nose and vote for the “Not as Bad” candidate when the time comes.


    I am a full time ordained itinnerant evangelist. I put my life savings into the work of the Kingdom and travel this country of ours searching for anyone who will listen to the saving message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    There are many 2 Peter 3 scoffers out there in the church who think that we can conduct business as usual.

    Not So!

    We must discern the times!

    Yes, Maranatha indeed!

  8. Joy B., 27 February, 2008


    I have gained much insight over the months from reading your posts. Once again, I am astounded!

    This is the battle I have been fighting. I was a political junkie until I realized President Bush was an imposter. I then began to see both parties represented “the bad guys”. I have not been a patriot for some time.

    I tend to get pulled back into politics out of fear for my young nephews and niece that I love so dearly. I have to keep in mind the most important thing I can do for them is to continue my prayers for them. I am also reminded by Mike’s post that societal change is a mandate for the church and not the government.

    I will not forget that “evil is evil whether greater or lesser”. I always pretend the USA is the Titanic and I have all these life preservers to hand out.


  9. Remnant, 28 February, 2008

    Jeremiah 18:7-10

    This parable of the potter teaches the absolute sovereignty of God over nations, not capriciously, but with sensitivity to the possibility of their repenting (v. 8).

    [The operative word here is Possibility]

    JER. 18:6

    {a} cannot I do with you as this potter? In the previous prophecy the nation was offered mercy with an opportunity to avert judgment, to have a long line of kings reigning in Jerusalem, and to have the city inhabited forever (Jer. 17:24-26). This mercy was offered as long as it seemed there was a possibility for the reformation under Josiah to be followed; but when Jehoiakim became king and went into all kinds of sins that had been practiced before him (2 Ki. 23:37), this apparently settled the national fate. The present prophecy (Jer. 18:1-11) still offered mercy as a final opportunity if it would be accepted on the terms of Jehovah molding the nation again, like a potter molding the vessel broken in his hand; but Israel rejected it. They claimed there was no hope and stated they would walk after their own devices and after the imaginations of their evil hearts (Jer. 18:12). Thus they made their final choice, and the next prophecy which followed was of the bottle being broken to picture the judgment and destruction of the nation (Jer. 19:1-15). In this message at the potter’s house Jeremiah was first called to observe the work of the potter as he wrought on the wheels, and see how a vessel was marred and made over again. Then the application was spoken to Judah, assuring them that it was not yet too late to be made over again into a wonderful nation, but they would have to become as clay in Jehovah’s hands (Jer. 18:6-11).

    [Do you see a willingness in the majority of the population of this country to become clay in G_D’s hands?]

    {b} house of Israel The house of Israel in this case refers to the kingdom of Judah to whom Jeremiah was prophesying. The 10 tribes had been destoyed over 100 years before this and were not a nation anymore. Many from the 13 tribes were in Judah and helped to make up the only kingdom of Israel — the subject of this prophecy. Compare Jer. 18:6 with Jer. 18:11 where the house of Israel is called “the men of Judah.

    JER. 18:7
    At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

    At what instant — in a moment, when the nation least expects it. Hereby he reminds the Jews how marvellously God had delivered them from their original degradation, that is, In one and the same day ye were the most wretched, and then the most favored of all people

    JER. 18:8
    If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

    {a} If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them Here God revealed His mercies and judgments upon all nations, as Sovereign of the entire earth — not upon Israel only (Jer. 18:7-8).

    {b} their evil — in antithesis to, “the evil that I thought to do.” repent — God herein adapts Himself to human conceptions. The change is not in God, but in the circumstances which regulate God’s dealings: just as we say the land recedes from us when we sail forth, whereas it is we who recede from the land (Ezekiel 18:21; 33:11). God’s unchangeable principle is to do the best that can be done under all circumstances; if then He did not take into account the moral change in His people (their prayers, etc.), He would not be acting according to His own unchanging principle (Jeremiah 18:9, 10). This is applied practically to the Jews’ case (Jeremiah 18:11; see Jeremiah 26:3; Jonah 3:10).

    [Again the operative word’s here are their evil and repent Choosing the lessor of two evils is still choosing evil, repent means to turn back to G_D forsaking stupid human tricks and more importantly forsaking evil]

    JER. 18:9
    And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

    [No comment is necessary see verse 18:7]

    Jer. 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

    You stated “but the Lord hasn’t taken His hand of protection off us yet. Lord have mercy on us while we (a few of us anyway) try to stir up national repentance.”

    [There are many who post on ITD’s whom you have chosen to criticize, that have been calling for a national day of repentance instead of the national day of prayer( I happen to be one of them) Sadly most in this country are to caught up in their kingdom now and replacement theologies to to believe they need to . also repentance and getting caught up in the game are two different things]

    JER. 18:11
    Jer. 18:11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

    {a} speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good The lesson learned in the potter’s workshop was now applied to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. God pronounced evil against them and invited them to return to Him to avert that evil. But Israel’s decision was not to repent and change their ways, so judgment had to fall (Jer. 18:12; 19:1-13) — a decision unheard of among the heathen. God called the choice “a very horrible thing” (Jer. 18:13).

    [I’ve included the end of the This parable so nothing is taken out of context. It tell us to speak out. I’ve never had a problem doing this, both to the brethren and to the lost. Again I don’t believe this country as a whole is willing to allow the potters hands to mold them.]

    Psa. 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

    Israel was the nation chosen as God’s inheritance.
    [We, who has accepted Yeshua and His gift of Salvation are grafted in to the olive tree of Israel The United States is not Israel and the Gentile believers have not replaced the Hebrews.]

    Acts 16

    I’m sure you are referring to Acts 16:37-39

    Acts 16:37
    But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.

    {a} being Romans, and have cast us into prison It was unlawful for any Roman citizen to be bound or beaten without proper trial or be put to death without an appeal to Caesar. Paul’s strategy was to teach these magistrates a lesson and to show the people that they had been unjustly condemned, and that the majesty of Rome had been insulted by this treatment of them.

    [How does this relate to the position YOU have assigned it to??]

    ACTS 16:38
    Acts 16:38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.

    {a} feared, when they heard that they were Romans They had a right to fear, for if this case was taken to Rome they would be deposed or probably executed for this violation of Roman law. Romans were zealous in protecting their citizens.

    [Are you saying that the declaration of Roman citizenship was some how a pass for their calling or purpose.

    Sadly the United States has already imprisoned people for sharing the Gospel of Salvation with no regard to their citizenship or their right as citizens to free speech.]

    ACTS 16:39
    Acts 16:39 And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.

    {a} they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city The Codex Bezae Part of the Textus Receptus) says that they came with many of their friends pleading for the men to leave before another mob rose up against them, and that the magistrates were ignorant of circumstances and that these were righteous men. They preached to Christians and left (Acts 16:40).

    [The operative sentence here is “the magistrates were ignorant of circumstances”

    Taking scripture and assigning ones own meaning to it. place one in that same category of ignorance.]

    [How does this relate to the position YOU have assigned it to?]

    Not one nation including Rome was saved. There were however households that were saved:

    Acts 16:15 Lydia and her whole household were saved !

    Acts 16:31-34 Shows that the entire household of the Philippian jailer were saved!]

    Acts 25
    Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest.

    {a} I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged Paul could see no point in going to Jerusalem to go through the same charges a third time. Then, too, he knew that the Jews would plot to kill him and that God had already told him that he must yet see Rome; so he made his appeal to Caesar (Acts 25:10-12).

    {b} to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest Festus admitted this (Acts 25:18-19).

    [How does this relate to the position YOU have assigned it to?]

    Tupor you do have a knack for missing the point!

    The passages you quote have nothing to do with the dogma you espouse, unless you follow either a replacement and or kingdom now theology.

    As you are using the Nearly Inspired Version. The texts used in it’s New Testament translation were rewritten fron the Greek texts, the codex Vaticanus and the codex Sinaticus. Sinaticus was discovered in a wastebasket (where it should have stayed) in St. Catherine’s Momentary (near Mt. Sinai) in 1844 by Constantin von Tischendorf. The Vaticanus was found in the Vatican library in 1475 and was rediscovered in 1845. of which it is translated from is quite erronious and can be considered a Laodicean Translation done by Westcott and Hort.

    Rev. 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

    {a} I know thy works Five things about the Laodiceans:

    1. Works (Rev. 3:15)

    2. Neither cold nor hot (Rev. 3:15)

    3. Lukewarm and nauseating (Rev. 3:16)

    4. Proud and self-satisfied (Rev. 3:17)

    5. Ignorant of true state (Rev. 3:17)

    Revelation 3:17
    This church, so wrapped up with material things, did not recognize its true condition.

    [Politics (both liberal and conservative) to many are the methods to keep the status quo of material things they either have or want to have.]

    When is it a “complete failure in stewardship” to refuse to accept evil? I am prepared to give account for rejecting evil before The Lord Jesus Christ” ( FYI, Christ was not His last name).

    You wrote that I am of the Laodicean church when in reality you are confusing righteous indignation from the self-righteous indignation you have continually posted on this site.

    I assure you the other people I know that post on this site, as well as myself are neither apathetic or sitting on our hands, we are spreading the gospel of Salvation not the drivel of Rush. My full time job for the last 7 years has been to help rescue people out of this world by telling them the Gospel of Salvation rather than concerning myself about the social gospel of Kingdom Now.

    If the purpose driven churches would spend half the time preaching repentance to salvation, rather that I’d like to buy the world a coke and make it all nice and fuzzy we might have a real major candidate to vote for. As it stands now the moral turpitude of this country has given us the candi-dunks offered by both parties.]

    Oh well enjoy that Laodicean Translation you read.

    In Messiah

  10. jen-o, 29 February, 2008

    dear tupor,

    i think that you have been missing the point that my fellow posters have been endeavoring to make…

    this really is NOT about following governmental rule 501(c)3 for nonprofit organizations and using 15% of a church’s activities and funds for political activism… the lukewarm church of laodicea is NOT being rebuked by Jesus for its apathy toward voting, nor does Jesus rebuke this church for being apathetic about social causes… this is NOT about social and political advocacy!… indeed, i venture to say that a person can be on fire for political and social causes, and be lukewarm toward Jesus… i perceive that the laodicean church has broken its hand while patting itself on the back for all its “good deeds” and social activism… and for all of that, the laodicean church is NOT even born-again!

    “influence this society for Christ”??
    what does that mean??
    we are called to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with INDIVIDUALS because Jesus shed his blood on the cross for individuals, NOT societies… individuals get saved (societies do NOT get saved)… this may seem rather self-evident; however, if one’s actions are so highly focused on political and social issues and causes, then the individual tends to get lost…

    the laodicean church is a very worldly church… they are very concerned with politics, governments, social causes, etc. to the end that they will help usher in the merger of the one world government and the one world religion… they are “christian” in name only and lukewarm for Jesus and the Truth… they want to set up their own kingdom on earth according to their own agenda… they do not follow God… they are spiritually dead…

    imo, this is NOT a stewardship issue at all… what is at the heart of this issue is whether one recognizes that we are citizens of HEAVEN, and not of this earth… for if we recognize where our true citizenship lies, then we will not entangle ourselves with the things of this world…


  11. Joan H, 01 March, 2008

    I feel out of league here posting when there is such wisdom as printed above.. biblical info of which i study but can’t always comprehend and use as well as i’d like.
    I recently attented a conference at calvary chapel where the main focus was exposing some of the “new age” teachings and deception being taught and practiced in this country and worldwide.
    I gotta tell you that after becoming born again, in what i attribute to obedience to God..i gradually withdrew from the world in many good ways.. I virtually turned off my tv. i carefully screened what i read and looked at and listened to in the way of radio magazines, television, emails etc.. I even “almost” became a King James only bible student…. sometimes when i can’t get it i revert to an easier version to see what God is trying to say…
    anyhow.. i sorta buried my head in the sand.. when i am at work i am so out of touch with most of the people i work with i have no idea what they are talking about (who what where etc) and sometime i think that i alienate myself and any chance of witnessing to them…as they think fun of my ways…..
    So if anybody can keep up with my ranting here.. when i listened to the warnings from the speakers at the conference as they brought up the “course on miracles that oprah has started this year” , i was really unaware of what this course was, or much of what the new age was all about..
    I thought in obedience after reading some things that were said about the course in miracles, about there being no sin.. so hence no need for a saviour… and many other things said to have been said.. i wrote e-mails to most of the people in my address book warning them about many deceptive teachings that abound today and especially asking them to be careful of the teachings of oprahs course on miracles as it didn’t sound to me that she was teaching the truth and that she might be teaching another Jesus than what the bible does…
    I recieved several replys supporting my views and some that questioned my views and if i was correct in my understanding .. and it made me wonder … did i ? one said if what i had written was true wouldn’t oprah want to know? sooooooo i went to the site and viewed some of these lessons on miracles….. some of the things that they say are true.. very little is said about Jesus… much actually is said about God.. some true, some not… there is allot of repetitive lines to say during the day “not more than twice and not more than a minute… ” the teachings are read by a woman in a monotone hypnotic manner, and to me it felt like some subliminal message was being broadcast.. i felt like as i listened i needed to pray for discernment and protection…
    anyhow i wondered if anyone had viewed any of these lessons.. i was going to make a reply to oprah regarding her teachings but after viewing the sholars above, i guess i ‘m asking if any of you feel a God given command to look breifly at this stuff to expose any darkness and make a reply!! i read a young ladies blog about a lesson asking others for an explanation and i wanted to give her a biblical explanation.!. sometimes i feel inadequate to do so , so help if anyone feels called to do so!!
    .. if i write to oprah, i will of course pray and also use proper capitalization and grammar to the best of my ability..

  12. penny, 01 March, 2008

    wow, all ya,ll really know your stuff. it is easy to tell ya’ll are on the LORD’S side. people do get too caught up in their politics and conservativness, christians included. but i believe we as a ,”quote”CHRISTIAN NATION, have a (feeling of exspectancy) that our country has begun to spiral out of control into the hands of the great deceiver. at least true born again christians anyway. we know GOD is in control at all times but when you get out there in the world away from fellow believers, if you are not anchored tightly you sometimes get caught up in the worlds craziness. i see alot of true christians out in the world getting scared. theirs not enough of us out there reminding them no matter whet, we are resting in the hands of god. forever and ever. AMEN.

  13. jen-o, 04 March, 2008

    dear joan,

    i would be more than willing to post on a forum at oprah’s “miracles” website… please post the link, and i will check it out… i actually have access to the book “a course in miracles” and i can’t read it without gagging… this book is NOT about the Jesus i know!


  14. jen-o, 04 March, 2008

    oh… and about that person who asked, “wouldn’t oprah want to know?”…
    IF oprah WANTED to know, then oprah WOULD know!

    Jesus said: “Ask, and it WILL be given to you; seek, and you WILL find; knock, and it WILL be opened to you. For EVERYONE who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.” (my caps)
    Matt. 7:7&8
    Luke 11:9&10

    i am a perfect example of these verses in action… i was living in a dinky little podunk town out in the middle of nowhere, and i REALLY wanted to know the truth… and i cried out to the Living God whom i wasn’t even sure existed… and within DAYS someone showed up at my doorstep and shared the gospel of Jesus Christ with me…

    God will move heaven and earth to get the Truth to someone who is sincerely seeking…

    oprah is NOT isolated as i was… so i can only conclude that oprah is NOT seeking the truth, but rather prefers the lies of the “new age”… and in fact, has become a teacher of “new age” thought, using her position and influence to spread these lies… i pray that she does have a change of heart and turns toward the Living God so that the scales may fall off her eyes…

  15. Joy B., 06 March, 2008

    There is an excellent book out, Reinventing Jesus Christ, which is available for online reading. It chronicles what Oprah and her New Age friends are up to. I highly recommend it.

    The link to it is:


  16. Joan H, 10 March, 2008

    actually i just went to the site and clicked on the course in miracles daily lesson , you can read any or all that have been given this year..

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