San Diego’s Gay Agenda Targets Youth — There’s a battle going on to win the nation’s kids to homosexuality, and James Hartline has stepped into the frontlines to protect them in the name of Christ.

Jesus said, “It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.”
—Luke 17:2

For 33 years, the San Diego Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Pride Organization has made it difficult for local parents to shield their children from its influence, especially during its annual celebrations.

Little do many realize how aggressively homosexual communities pursue and recruit youth to accept and adopt their lifestyle.

Along the parade route

Just what would one see while attending San Diego’s Gay Pride Event?

Hartline, who marched in the LGBT Pride Parade nine years ago before coming to Christ and leaving his homosexual lifestyle of 30 years, gives us a candid, first-hand look.

Panning across the summer festival, one would see pornographers, transvestites, male strippers, female flashers and scantily clad adults imitating homosexual acts as part of the public display.

The entire event is rife with derogatory visuals aimed at perverting young and innocent minds.

Last year, Hartline witnessed a man wearing a thong while pedaling the LGBT Pride Parade route on a bicycle and handing out candy to children.

This year, one can expect to see San Diego Cooperative Charter, a public kindergarten through 8th-grade school, marching its students in the parade under its banner in a repeat performance.

Hartline is dedicated to putting an end to the K-8 students’ participation. He brought their involvement into the public eye after witnessing children as young as six years old being exposed to the obscene atmosphere of the parade last year. Children participated while handing out pencils donning the school’s Web address.

What you won’t see in this year’s festivities are Poway High School’s “Lancer’s Dancers.” Protests kept them from performing in the parade after the school’s participation had already been arranged.

Children beware

Even more disturbing, the San Diego LGBT Pride Organization hired a registered pedophile, Marty the Clown, to entertain youngsters in the children’s garden at the event.

“At least four other registered sex offenders were hired to fill salaried and voluntary supervisory positions for the festivities,” Hartline said.

Hartline was instrumental in exposing the criminal history of two sex offenders who volunteered in LGBT Pride events.

Selling immorality

Licentious influences abound throughout the San Diego annual gay event, which openly invites children.

Little discretion was shown by event organizers, as an 11-year-old girl was seen leaving the festivities with a bag filled with condoms and sexual lubricants.

Hartline explained that the event provides an open market for gay porn companies, sex toy manufacturers, triple-x gay pornography and male escort services.

Ironically, the San Diego LGBT Pride Parade is promoted as a family-friendly festival. Yet its organizers announced that this year’s event will carry even more pornographic material than previous years.

Government support

Not only does the San Diego Gay Pride event take place on public land funded by taxpayers, but the mayor, city attorney, politicians and police departments participate in the parade.

Governor Schwartzenegger also endorses this immoral event, as stated in his letter to the San Diego LGBT Pride Organization.

“The last few years have seen a significant shift in society’s views toward the LGBT community… Icy intolerance is slowly melting away…, ” he said. “My thanks to each and every one of you who work to promote the respect of all people, regardless of their sexual orientation… I reaffirm my commitment to join you in building a better California where everybody matters and every family counts. On behalf of all Californians, please accept my best wishes for a memorable event and every continued success.”

The gay agenda is supported by the government both directly and indirectly.

Hartline notes that a key player in the LGBT Pride Parade, San Diego’s Gay and Lesbian Center office, which was set up to fight for gay and lesbian marriage, received $2 million in government funds for HIV relief. Yet the money was refinanced and used to build an apartment for its youth center.

“Influential ACLU members belong to the SDGL center,” said Hartline.

Youths, classified as a group of 14- to 24-year olds, come together under one roof at the SDGL Youth Center, which Hartline notes as being “utilized as a contact point for Gay-Straight Alliance high schoolers.” The GSA is a conglomeration of teacher-sponsored clubs held in an increasing number of public high schools and middle schools.

More than just a hangout, the youth center “organized an alternative prom for 300 kids,” Hartline said. It also supplies bowls of condoms and porn magazines on its premises, and tells kids that if they question their sexuality, they must be homosexual.

Infiltrating the schools

Being a member of the Gay-Straight Alliance or a comparable program is one of the requirements of the San Diego LGBT Pride Youth Internship program. The internship is available for high school seniors who would be responsible for recruiting other teens to join in its festivities.

“Many GSAs are started by students who were recruited to attend ‘Camp Mini Town’ two-week camps, where they were made to feel uncomfortable if they didn’t accept sexual diversity,” Hartline says. “A vast majority of camp attendees start up GSAs at their schools, where they distribute literature and applications to their peers.”

Students are organizing “Day of Truth” events to counter Gay-Straight Alliance activities among their peers. will have that story next Friday.

Suggested curricula for public schools’ liberal sex education programs call for teachers to discuss homosexual practices and lifestyles in a favorable light, and to even invite adult gay and lesbian couples from the Gay Alliance into their classrooms to share what a “wholesome” homosexual relationship is all about.

The battle continues

Few understand the dangers of the strong homosexual influence on youth better than Hartline, who still lives in Hillcrest, the heart of San Diego’s gay community.

After contracting HIV nearly 10 years ago, Hartline turned his life over to Christ and became “His ambassador” to fight the gay agenda. He spent many of his 30 years as a homosexual behind bars, and his self-destructive behavior and drug habit landed him in prison mental hospitals for 15 years.

To win the war, he gives educational tours through the Hillcrest community to show concerned adults what this nation’s youth are up against, and what they can do about it.

Hartline leads the “Not on My Watch” team as they speak up against the gay agenda for three minutes every month at televised San Diego city council meetings.

Eight porn stores in his neighborhood, including one directly across the street from an elementary school, were shut down as a result of his ministry.

Join the good fight

Persecution from the gay community is an everyday reality for Hartline, yet heartfelt prayers continue to be his shield. His San Diego ministry welcomes supporters to help combat the gay agenda.

  1. nanc, 30 March, 2007


  2. Mark, 30 March, 2007

    It is time for fathers to protect their children from this abomination and become the spiritual leaders of their homes. To train their childern in the Way Prov 22:6 and look to Jesus Christ, I Corinthians 1:30

  3. LINDA, 30 March, 2007

    First of all, for the sake of conversation, let’s take out the sexual &
    religious components out of this issue.
    Public schools do everything they can to keep drugs out of the schools because of the many negative effects a lifestyle of drugs can have on a student’s physical & mental well-being, (including HIV via dirty needles).
    Following that train of thought, why are schools exposing our children to a lifestyle that can expose them to a variety illnesses (including HIV) & mental anguish (watching friends & loved-ones dying many years too soon from a disease that is completely preventable).
    We must besiege our law-makers to get something on the books in which our tax dollars follow the students to whichever school parents decide is best for their children. Then, the schools will pay attention to what the parents want in the education offered, not an indifferent 3rd party with their own agenda to accomplish.

  4. Scott Lambdin, 31 March, 2007

    To Linda’s comments: Your right about what you say, but how do we get across to the parents to be more involved with their children. The other day I was listening to Laura Ingrham, and a teacher had mentioned that out of some 130 students that she had in classes through out the day, that during parent teacher confrences, only five parents had shown up. Parents need to be more involved in what their kids are doing and learning to keep up with what the schools are teaching them. Thats why I strongly believe in home schooling, if the parents can make that sacrifice for their kids. I can’t say enough about parents being involved with their kids.

  5. aneriz, 31 March, 2007

    I have to say that this article is really bad news, but what stood out for me was Mr Hartline’s commitment thru the “Not on My Watch” efforts. He is a great example of how the Lord can use any of His children to be light in the midst of darkness. Let us take inspiration from this servant, pray for guidance and be proactive in our communities. It does make a difference.

  6. lorry, 22 November, 2007

    this is disappointing. not all glbt members are perverted sexual diviants. if u focus on only the bad and ugly of course u will never see the good..i do think it was good that they shut down those adult stores though. but if we were to focus on all the straight men and women who have commited sexual crimes im pretty sure u would be just as digusted. by the way most sexual predators are heterosexual men

  7. jen-o, 24 November, 2007

    dear lorry,

    huh?…. yes, all LGBT are sexual deviants according to God’s Word!

    ALL LGBT have deviated from God’s design for natural sexuality… ALL LGBT have perverted the natural design that God Almightly has created… therefore, they are ALL perverted sexual deviants… IF you believe God’s Word, you can come to no other conclusion…

    the book of romans is quite clear about this:
    “For this cause God gave them up unto VILE AFFECTIONS: for even their women did change the NATURAL USE into that WHICH IS AGAINST NATURE: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their LUST one to another; men with men working that which is unseemly…

    so what makes you think that some of them are not perverted sexual deviants??… and tell me, what is the good that you find in any of this??

    just because i am also disgusted by heterosexual perversion, are you suggesting i should overlook homosexuality (which is BY DEFINITION (God’s definition) perverse?)

    btw, i do not see heterosexual parades simulating sex acts and passing out pornography and condoms… why is it that only the perverse homosexuals can get away with this??

    tell me, just what is it that you see that is “the good” of any of this?

  8. pat, 27 November, 2007

    “If we fail to love our neighbor, we are deceiving ourselves if we think that we love God.”

    Teresa of Avila

  9. jen-o, 27 November, 2007

    if we fail to correctly define sin, we deceive only ourselves…

    jen of o

    did i once say that i did not love a sinner?… NO, i have NEVER said that!… we are ALL sinners… and that is why we all need the Savior, the Savior from sin… there is NONE that doeth good, no not one!… ALL are destined for hell UNLESS they accept the Lord Jesus as their own personal Savior and make HIM the LORD of their lives…

    do you think that i am not aware of the fact that i am a sinner??

    i am not going to tap dance around the homosexual issue… according to God’s Word (and He knows better than you and i), homosexuals ARE sexual deviants and have perverted the natural sexuality that God Almighty has designed… does that mean that i do not love them?… NO, it does not!… it means that they need to turn toward the Savior who has the power to free them from their sexual deviancy…

    REAL love is telling the people the TRUTH that is found in God’s Word! (whether that is popular or not)
    REAL love is being concerned for the ETERNAL state of men’s souls!… REAL love is wanting to see people go to heaven and not die in their sins!…

    REAL love is telling people the Truth, even if they spit in your face!


  10. Scott L., 27 November, 2007

    Hey Pat

    Good too see your still visiting and keeping us believers in check.

    Your quote by Teresa of Avila, whoever she may be. Does she condone
    the sexual perversian and the blatant in your face by the GLBT?

    Does she agree with God that this lifstyle is a choice?

    And can she honestly say that she is in love with God?

    What does she think about pedophiles?

    This ought to bring on some interesting dialogue.

    Scott L.

  11. Linda, 28 November, 2007

    Hey Scott!
    Good to see you with that full plate of yours! I pray G-D’s blessings on you, your family & all your endeavors.
    RE: Teresa of Avila, according to the web she lived in the 1500’s so I doubt that she witnessed any of the perverted things that are being paraded before our eyes & the eyes of our kids.
    Yes, we love all sinners. We also have the responsibility to protect the innocent that G-D has put in our care from the depraved acts of others (whether it is visual, in the form of a personal attack, or attempting to indoctrinate). If we fail to do so, we are not being good stewards of our children.

    Jen of O!
    Thank you for painting such a clear picture. And this is not just in referrence to homosexuals, but to all sinners…& we are to be salt to this crazy, mixed up world to try & bring all to the only Savior this world has. (it’s so simple, but so many make it difficult).

  12. Warren, 29 November, 2007

    Yes indeed Jen-O. Jesus told people the truth and they spit in his face and we are definitely not better than He is.

    It saddens me to see militancy on either side though. I don’t want to be forced to accept a gay lifestyle choice and they don’t want to be forced to believe what I believe. Name calling is a sin too and yet many people that claim to represent our Lord will call them derogatory names with venom pooring from their mouth. You know, Jesus loves them too. He will allow them to fall, to keep their sins and the debt it carries, but I’ve always imagined that it saddens Him deeply when what He offers is a free gift.

  13. jen-o, 29 November, 2007


    i hope that you did not think that i was resorting to name calling… name calling is what people do when they can’t win an argument with reason OR sometimes it is done out of hate… i was doing neither… instead i was responding to lorry’s attempt to redefine homosexuality by saying that not all of them are sexual deviants and not all of them have perverted God’s design for sexuality… my point was that BY DEFINITION (God’s definition), ALL homosexuals have perverted God’s natural design and ALL homosexuals have deviated from this natural design that God set up for mankind as noted in the scripture i quoted from the book of romans… it was not a matter of name calling, it was a matter of definition… lorry tried to change the definition, and so i spoke up…

    deviant: one who strays from a standard, principle, or norm…

    sexual deviant: one who strays from a sexual standard or norm (and i was referring to God’s standards)

    pervert/perverted: corrupt/corrupted; misdirect/misdirected; misuse/misused; to cause to turn aside or away from what is good or true or morally right…

    homosexuals corrupt and misuse the natural design of the human body… they have strayed from the standards that God has set up in the area of sexuality…

    that is what i was responding to… i am not trying to be militant, nor do i speak with venom… i just don’t think the definition should be changed in order to make people feel comfortable in their sin…

    but thanks for giving me the opportunity to clear that up…


  14. pat, 29 November, 2007

    Dear Scott et al:

    Yes, I still check out the site to see what are the current ingredients in the brownie recipe. Knowledge is power and I still like to take all things into consideration.

    I find most of the comments regarding gays/lesbians distressing. Remarks such as “they are the most selfish group of people in the world; pedophile; illegal sexual act; disgusting; abomination; sexual deviants; vile affections ; perverted; depraved acts” are exquisitely judgmental but certainly not a proclamation of brotherly love! If Jesus truly said any/all of the following: judge ye not; do unto others; let he who is without sin cast the first stone; love thy neighbor; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted” the previous insulting remarks should have no place in the scribing of “true believers”. They are incongruant with the supposed teachings of the great master. It is my understanding the Jesus did NOT say: love thy neighbor, unless he is gay; judge the homosexuals, but ignore all others; stone the lesbians but release the rest; and truly I say unto you, homo’s can never be exalted in any way.

    I get very sceptical when someone acclaims they know the “mind” of God. They understand His(that male only thing again) reasoning for what and how God “thinks”, and with what and how he will punish the wicked. Eons ago life was given the title “Great Mystery”. We must find ways to live in the mystery, because we lack the knowledge and ability to solve it.

    At the end of the day the only ones we have the power to save/change is ourselves. The only tap dancing to be done, is the unique dance each of us will perform. The Way of Perfection(one of the works of Teresa of Avila) is intensely private, personal, and introspective. If we would all look into the mirror and acknowledge our own shortcomings instead of pointing outward at the flaws of others, the world would have more to smile about, and I suspect God would too.
    Just my thoughts,
    PS Okay Jen of O I’ll bite—what is your definition of sin?
    I disagree with your definition of true love. True love is loving another just the way they are. Knowing their faults, imperfections, warts, and loving and accepting them anyway, just as Jesus did the Prostitute. Namaste`

  15. Kevin Wilson, 29 November, 2007

    This is a tough one for me and I usually avoid commenting on it because I just don’t have any experience with homosexuality (not that I want any) it’s just that the darkness I remember from my days BC was drugs, Alcohol, sex, devious thought life and many others. BUT, the truth remains, we are called to LOVE every one the same and that means homosexuals too. I agree with my sister Linda that our public school system is infected badly with a double standard regarding the very safety of our future (the children). The system seems to have endorsed the following guidelines; SAY NO to injecting yourself with needles but it’s okay to inject with a condom covered penis. (sorry for the graphic words, but it is the truth). This abobination will not be solved by prayer alone nor by the political system, the infection is far to deep for that now. For those that can’t manage Christian school or home schooling even prayer, fasting and supplication seem to be loosing the battle in our public schools. Personally I’m being called to serve as a substitute teacher, a CHRISTIAN substitute teacher. I have always liked a challenge and that hasn’t changed since I became born again. So please brethren, pray for me and that there might be more like me willing to take the LOVE of Jesus into our schools through the back door so to speak. I just don’t see a win here by locking horns with the devil and trying to fight it politically.




  16. jen-o, 04 December, 2007

    i am not sure what is going on with my webtv… i am missing huge chunks of posts… in this case, 6 days worth… this is the first time i have seen any new posts since i last posted on nov. 29th, 6 days ago… and so i have been unable to respond in a timely fashion…

    if you want to know what is in the “brownie recipe,” read the bible!!… the recipe does NOT change!

    what’s up, pat?… you do not like me using webster’s dictionary to define things… you don’t like the words “VILE AFFECTIONS”… those are GOD’S WORDS, not mine… i’m just repeating what HE said!… (quoted in Romans 1:26)… so argue with God’s choice of words, if you like…

    “but the natural man/woman receives NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are FOOLISHNESS unto him/her: neither can he/she KNOW them because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED”

    i do not expect you to have any spiritual understanding, if you have not the Spirit of God… you are constantly trying to shove a square peg into a round hole… because you are trying to make your own version of christianity by picking and choosing those scriptures you agree with and disregarding the rest… indeed, disregarding the WHOLE PICTURE… and trying to merge your version of christianity with the rest of the world’s religions…

    Jesus is NOT just some nice guy who said some nicey-nice things… Jesus is the Messiah, the LORD of LORDS, the KING of KINGS who laid down His life, suffering in YOUR place to pay the penalty of YOUR sins so that YOU can have eternal life… if you want to reject that, it is YOUR decision…

    if you want to know the mind of God, read the bible!… He’ll tell you what HE thinks!

    btw, i do NOT invent my own definitions…

    sin (according to merriam-webster’s collegiate dictionary): a transgression of the law of God; a vitiated (defective/impaired/debased) state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God.

    sin (according to the critical lexicon and concordance to the english and greek new testament): aberration from prescribed law or duty.

    (there’s a lot more to say about sin, but that’s all i’m gonna say right now)

    christians do not really care about your interpretation of the Words of Jesus… the bible interprets itself, that is what we seek to understand… christians do not really care about personal opinions (especially of unbelievers)… we care about the opinion of GOD… and the Holy Spirit teaches us spiritual things as we read the Bible…

    if you have come to this site looking for knowledge (as power), let me just say that head knowledge will NOT get you into heaven… if you want to get to heaven, you must by FAITH accept the LORD JESUS as your own personal Savior from sin…

    i hope you make that decision… soon…


  17. Remnant, 04 December, 2007

    Jen-O My dear Sister in Yeshua!


    In Messiah

  18. Warren, 04 December, 2007

    Sin (my definition) is anything that separates you from God. Anything. If reading a book separates you from God then the reading of that book is a sin. I had an love for reading fantasy but guess what? The books dulled my senses, the kept me from growing spiritually and then kept me firmly planted in the world they created; a fantasy world. If I’m locked away in a fantasy world only God can lead me out; He did that and I’ve been unable to get far into any work of fiction since. Why would He do that? Because the books were receiving the attention that only He deserves and desires.

    The Ten Commandments are a good start for knowing what God considers sin but Jesus broke it down even further and yet, made it simpler at the same time. Love God (with ALL of your heart, mind, soul and strength) and love your neighbor as you love yourself. If you can do those two things, you probably won’t sin anyway. If you love God how can you claim that a lack of self-control is okay? If giving into your lusts is okay; why does God’s word say that it isn’t?
    “If it feels good, do it” isn’t found anywhere in the Bible. If you must find your ‘spritiual’ food outside of the Word of God; you will be deceived.

    Jen-O I’ve never seen your writing imply hatred. Please forgive me if my words implied that.

    but I’ve seen plenty of people at those rally’s calling people names with hatred plainly on their faces claiming at the same time that they are doing it for Jesus. I think they will be horribly surprised on that day when He says He never knew them. And I’ve seen plenty of the gay tribe say that God loves them too. Yes! He does but guess what, if you allow yourself to drown in your sin. He’ll let you do that. If you don’t allow Christ to carry that burden for you then you’ll have to carry it yourself. and the burden of sin is separation from God; for eternity.

    America is in the trouble that it is in because we are, perhaps, the most God aware nation that has ever existed but we are in the process of denying Him not only on a national level but, far worse, a personal one.

  19. pat, 04 December, 2007

    Dear Kevin:
    If it is your experience to guide or counsel a gay or lesbian, please remember they are someones son/daughter; grandchild ; niece/nephew;cousin; or friend.
    My experience with homosexuals was very casual. I knew a few people that are “out of the closet”, I worked with a few, and then a family member came to me personally, and shared his thoughts. He is a 40something cousin whom I had babysat, let him tag along with me at school, and had gone to his games, and school programs. I watched him grow to manhood, and was delighted to attend his wedding. His marriage ended in divorce after 15 years or so. His ex-wife continues to be his best friend, and they visit each other often. He is one of 7 in his family, being the 3rd of 5 boys. Our family is very homophobic.
    This man is a kind and gentle soul, he is loving and caring, and a productive member of society. He never has a harsh word about anyone. He takes financial and other responsibilities for his ailing mother. He happens to be gay, and he remains silent. He lives his life as a lie because he is afraid of how the truth would effect his relationships with his friends, relatives, and even his own brothers. When I hear comments about gays, I relate them personally to him, he is my gay relative. When people describe him and his life as an abomination , depraved, or vile, it bothers me deeply. But, then I think, they do not know him, they do not love him. They have not yet had a loving family member claim his own to them.
    You can disagree with his orientation. You can believe God will admonish his soul to hell. You can believe he chose his own gayness. Your CHOICE is the way in which you expound your opinions. You can either choose love and kindness ,or hateful verbs and nouns. It’s up to you how you want to be held accountable.
    My thoughts,

  20. pat, 04 December, 2007

    Thank you for supporting the point I was trying to make. Words can be kind, or definitively “right”, and everything in between. What you say, and how you say it is a choice.
    I have not chosen a version of Christianity to either merge with world religions or otherwise. Christians choose for themselves. There are many posts on this site and elsewhere regarding the “right” kind of Christian to be. But, thank you for sharing what “christians really care about.”
    As for spiritual understanding, I have enough to know that it begins with the person in the mirror.

  21. Remnant, 04 December, 2007

    Mirror, mirror on the wall, in a mirror you see what you see. Not what G_D sees.

  22. Kevin Wilson, 04 December, 2007

    Dear Pat,

    I don’t think you understood my post, please re-read it. LOVE does not tolerate or allow SIN. Instead LOVE converts the sinner through the conviction of the TRUTH. I understand that you have a family member who is gay and that the TRUTH hurts both you and him (this is the conviction I mentioned) The Gospel is not one of personal choice or preference, it is fact and it is simple. Stay Holy and you get the Holy Spirit. The Lord will not interfere with personal choice, but the consequences are grim for those who stray. I encourage you to read the Bible and then check your statement, “Christians choose for themselves”. True Christians are lead by the Holy Spirit.

    In Messiah


  23. Linda, 05 December, 2007

    dear pat,
    your post to kevin sheds light on the nature of your past posts. i am the one who said the remark about selfish. and i still feel that way about those who want to go into elementary schools to put their books in the library & go into the classrooms to discuss their life styel to 6 year olds….that to me is selfish because they are pushing their ways down the throats of the innocent while telling others not to push faith down theirs. (have you heard the chant: “get them by 8 {years old} before it’s too late”?)

    pat, your cousin sounds like a wonderful person. i have freinds who happen to be gay, both men & women, none of which carry on like the ones who threaten the innocent minds or who partake in the disgusting parades.

    if your cousin needed a bone marrow transplant & you were a match, i’m confident you would be there for him. well that’s how i feel about those who are gay. do i talk with my freinds about G-D’s words of warning?? yes!!
    and they know i do so because i love them & they are taking it in a spoonful at a time.

    pat, if you knew someone who conducted interventions for those whose lives were being destroyed by drugs, etc. would you applaud or condem his efforts to help these people point their lives in the right direction? i think i already know that you would be supportive of those efforts.

    the difference is the “professional polish” that the interventionist has that christians do not have available to them…rather that joining us in saving the souls of so many wonderful people, the professionals have chosen to mock most anything to do with G-D.

    do we mess up? yes. out of frustration usually with myself because i can’t get the message across fast enough (we are running out of time). how did you feel when your cousin first told you (questions for thought, no need to respond on your post) it’s not easy because of the love G-D has planted inside of us.

    it wasn’t easy for HIM to watch HIS Son die on the cross, but HE knew it was necessary for our salvation because someone had to pay for our sins. there is accountability for what we do for HIS loved ones.

    what would you think of a doctor who knew a child needed a life-saving surgery, but did not reveal this to the parents because he knew the surgery was very difficult & recovery very long & painful, consequently, the child died. did he do what he was called upon to do?

    the easy, less complicated way is not always the right way. have you ever considered that G-D has put this situation that your cousin is in. in your path so you could minister HIS truth to him? being that your cousin is such a good man, he deserves to have someone lovingly sit down with him & have conversations together.

    pat, this would be the time to get into the bible, after praying that our Heavenly Father would reveal to you what HE wants you to know so that you can be a willing vessel for HIM.

    pat, this has been written at 5:15am & i’m sure i’ve made grammatical mistakes….but it’s written from my heart in love so i pray that you receive it that way. please take no offense.

    may G-D’s truth, love & peace rest upon you & your cousin, in Christ Jesus name, amen.


  24. Linda, 05 December, 2007

    to my fellow christians,
    regarding my statement to pat about professional polish…that is what i suffer from….i did not intend to imply that you all are lacking professionalism.
    see what i get myself into when i try to think too early in the morning!
    love to you all,

  25. pat, 05 December, 2007

    Dear Kevin:
    I think I understood your post. My point is that if you find yourself in a situation to counsel gays or lesbians, remember everyone belongs to someone. They are human beings who happen to be homosexual. If you are offended by this, make your point , say what you need to say, do what you feel you need to do. But, do it in an honest way, without all the condescending language and threats. Honor humanity by being humane.
    Selfish, pushy, in your face jerks exist on both sides of the homosexual debate. How is as important as why, especially if your intention is to convert someone to change.
    Good Luck,

  26. Linda, 05 December, 2007

    Please take a moment….

    ….Merry Christmas

  27. jen-o, 05 December, 2007

    dear pat,

    i really do not have a clue what you are talking about… what exactly was the point you were trying to make, and how did i support such point of yours?

    if you are trying to make the point that we all have choices, well, that’s redundantly obvious… i don’t think there is a person on this website that is going to disagree with that point…

    if you were trying to make a different point, please expound…

    i also do not understand your terminology regarding “the “right” kind of christian to be”… being a christian means accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. period, end of story… after that, there is massive variety… we are NOT a bunch of robots!… [however, i do want to add that i realize that apostasy abounds in these last days, and i am aware that many who call themselves “christian” are NOT real christians]

    as for spiritual understanding, this too, begins with accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior (imo – i have no chapter and verse for that off the top of my head)… except, it seems to me that until you do accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, you are spiritually BLIND according to 2 Corinthians, chapter 4: “but if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world (satan) has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”

    regarding choices, God says in His Word:
    “I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore, choose life…”

    God has set before us 2 major choices… there are only 2 options; there is no middle of the road (you can’t have partial life and partial death)… there is LIFE (which is only found in Jesus; Jesus is THE LIFE) and there is DEATH (which occurs by REJECTING JESUS who is THE LIFE)… in essence, death is the rejection of life which is synonymous with the rejection of Jesus…

    remember, Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and THE LIFE.” “NO ONE comes unto the Father, but by me.”
    John 14:6

    so, i’m just gonna be real blunt… do you reject Jesus OR do you accept HIM as your Lord and Savior?


  28. jen-o, 05 December, 2007

    dear warren,

    no need for an apology… i welcomed the opportunity to clarify my previous post…


  29. pat, 05 December, 2007

    Dear Linda:

    Thank you for your early morning post. All those thoughts online before the sun was up. I applaud you. I also feel your reply was heartfelt and sincere, I will try to answer in like.

    My cousin is a wonderful person. I am very blessed to have him in my life. I suspect he is on my path more for me than I for him. If you separate sex from the homosexual, and many cannot, his life is a good example of how to treat others. He is one of the first to arrive and ask “how can I help? He practices spontaneous acts of kindness regularly. He is generous with his time and his money.
    I was raised in part by our grandmother. She was poor. Her house was a shack, but always filled with visitors. It was not uncommon to come home from school and find either the president of the bank, or the homeless “dump bum” having coffee or lemonade with her. The town drunk was as welcome in her home as was the mayor. She raised a large garden, and shared it, and anything else she had, with family and/or neighbors. She was pregnant when she married my grandfather. She NEVER failed to make something to give to an unwed mother who decided to keep her baby. This was many years ago when single moms were shunned. Gram was very devout in her beliefs. She was a Sunday regular at church, and her worn bible ,with the zipper broken from use, always sat on the arm of her old red chair. I never heard my grandmother describe herself as Christian, born again, or true believer. Her actions spoke what she believed. Her spiritual advice to me was to remember it was not the church that would get me to heaven. It was how I lived my life and treated others that was the determining factor. For me she defined Christian values. It wasn’t so much who I believed in as it was how I lived His message. That is why I tend to see the love of Jesus, not the sword. It may be incomplete, airy fairy, or short sighted, but she was the one who modeled Christianity for me. I know that she would love and support my cousin, without judgement, and so will I. I do not see him as damaged or broken, needing fixed. He is well past the age of reason, and responsible for his own self. We are all creations of God, and if he is to be judged, I leave that to his Creator.
    Our founding parents downloaded the doctrine of religious freedom for this country. I feel the journey to God is a personal one, and each will be accountable for our own salvation. I do not have to have the same beliefs as others in order to respect their right to believe as they do. Disagreeing is not dissing.
    Many on this site urge me to study the bible, before it is too late. I have read it somewhat. I have met a lot of folks that say: ” I can’t do this, I must do that, because it is, or isn’t, in the bible. “The bible says: whatever verse they want to expound, so therefore it is truth.” That intrigued me. If people were prepared to arrange the whole of their physical and spiritual life on the information from one book, I wanted to know it’s history . So, rather than verse and meaning, I studied who, what , when, and why. As a result, I do not have the same unfaltering faith that you all do.

  30. Lance Gilman, 05 December, 2007

    Dear Linda,
    Thank you so very much for the touching videos.
    Just what my spirit needed. God Bless You!

  31. Lance Gilman, 05 December, 2007


    Are you into new age christianity? Or did you come out of New Age?
    What’s with the Namaste bit? Most folks I know that use those terms have a new age world view. On the other hand, most believers I know, I mean all believers I know, use Amen, God bless you, Praise God, or even the jewish word for Peace be with you(Shalom). Anything but namaste.

    I was just wondering. Not to be nit picky or offensive. Just wondering whether you are born again? That’s the key to real truth and spiritual understanding. The scripture Jen-o was looking for I think is John chapter 3. It’s all about finding the kingdom of God. It comes from Jesus himself so there’s no guessing what he says.
    He always put’s it plain and simple.

    I also have a question.
    Was Jesus treating the religious Pharisees humanely when He called them “a brood of vipers?” Or was He pointing out there sin? Plainly and simply.

    God Bless you Pat.

  32. Ken Cole, 06 December, 2007

    Pat-It appears you want to label some here as being condescending and disrespectful towards gays.
    You are doing this very thing towards many here, How many times will you repeat these thoughts as if they already have commited these crimes.

    Yes, some inexperienced believers or some gay haters have adressed the problem without the proper spirit. Just like many people have enabled some to live a life of adiction.
    Mistakes are made everyday, all we can do is pray for the wisdom of Gd to help us deal with our short commings so we can be of some use for His Kingdom..

  33. Warren, 06 December, 2007

    It’s interesting to see this discussion develop. Let’s look at it like this.
    What most Christians call the homosexual lifestyle is sin. But the Bible calls it an ‘abomination’.

    Here are some of the definitions of abomination (google abomination if you don’t believe me):
    1: a person who is loathsome or disgusting
    2: hate coupled with disgust
    3: an action that is vicious or vile; an action that arouses disgust or abhorrence

    So, when God calls the lying of men with men an abomination He is using much stronger language than most of us use. And yet, when the fur starts to fly Christians are accused of being judgemental or bigots or hateful. God destroyed two cities and had Israel destroy entire cultures because of this “lifestyle” choice. It will be Jesus, who died for the sins of the world that will judge them, not us. However, He was explicit when he said if we did not warn them of the judgement to come, we ourselves would be held accountable. We cannot keep silent but we cannot condemn either. If they do not take our warning seriously, they are condemned already.

    It seems harsh but he gave a way of escape. If you choose not to accept that well…

    Peace from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

  34. Linda, 06 December, 2007

    dear pat

    G-D bless you for sharing such wonderful memories of your precious Grandmother. i miss my grandma so much; i believe it’s because they usually represent a time in our lives when no matter what was going on, grandma could always find a way to make life feel wonderous & full of simple expectations…running to a bush to pick berries, feeling important ‘cuz i “helped” her sprinkle the lawn, setting the table together for Easter dinner…
    they knew what our tender minds could handle & they buffered us from the concerns & pressures of the world & every-day life. i still have a few of her little things on my dresser & just glancing at them as i walk by, takes me back in time to when things were simpler, is your gram’s bible still in the family?

    G-D created life for us to be simple like that, but because of disobedience, we have dealt ourselves a life of struggle. it’s a wonderous thing to dwell upon that the Almighty loves us all so much that HE would do whatever it takes to protect us from our own choices. HE made a covenant with Abraham in which HE was the only responsible party see:

    we are referred to as sheep because when it comes to the snares of the devil we are helpless as sheep. he tantilizes us, he prompts us, he entraps us, he
    seduces us & then when we take the bait, then he mocks us, accuses us & tries
    to makes us feel unworthy of the things of G-D.

    that’s why we cling so to the Word of G-D, because we have all danced that dance with the devil & we realize how easy it is for him to trick us. When
    G-D left HIS heavenly throne & manifested HIMSELF as the baby Jesus, HE did so to reveal HIMSELF & HIS character to us & to be tempted by the devil so we would understand that HE understood our trials & that HE is simply trying to protect us from the destruction that satan wants to flood into our lives.

    all HE wants to do is love us & have us love HIM of our own free will. HE
    IS love, grace, mercy, righteousness & justice (& so much more!).
    as with kings of the world, HIS words, once spoken, cannot be undone. a price had to be paid for our sin to satisfy HIS justice. so in HIS above mentioned covenant in which HE was the liable partner, HE had to fulfill the price.

    thus, Jesus willingly endured the cross & all the torture just before the cross to pay the price we owed with HIS blood, to cover us with HIS robe of righteousness, to make us presentable to have the previlege to be received before the throne of the Almighty with all our concerns & prayers, AND to become joint heirs with HIM as the Son of G-D! and to be partakers of all this, all we have to do is receive Jesus as our Savior. talk about a deal made in heaven!!

    when, in our quiet times, we come to understand & dwell on ALL that has been done for us & to think of the CREATOR of the universe reaching out to us in such a powerful, yet tender way, we just cannot help but fall in love with HIM….

    so, that’s why we try to reach out to others, because we want them to be able to dwell on those same things & realize how much G-D loves them in truth.

    we take the bible as the wholly inspired Word of G-D. so, if the bible reveals to us that there are certain things that G-D detests (& there must be a very good reason for HIM to feel that way & it usually is for our well-being), then we simply want to inform others of what the bible says so they don’t jeopardize their relationship with G-D (so many people who are christian have not even picked up a bible).

    what so many people don’t realize is that we continually look over our own lives when the Holy Spirit convicts our hearts. we deffinitely are aware that we are FAR from perfect.

    well, pat, my nephew has to hop on the computer for his classwork. i pray that you receive my words in love & understanding.


  35. Kevin Wilson, 06 December, 2007

    Dear Pat,

    to quote YOU to make myself clear.

    “remember everyone belongs to someone.”
    True we are all children of G_d.

    “They are human beings who happen to be homosexual.”
    Homosexuality is a choice not something G_d created us to be.

    “If you are offended by this, make your point , say what you need to say, do what you feel you need to do. But, do it in an honest way, without all the condescending language and threats.”
    I think my language is appropriate and I don’t recall any threats (what are you talking about?

    ” Honor humanity by being humane.”
    Honor G_d by being like Jesus. To honor humanity is to be OF THE WORLD. read your bible.

    “Selfish, pushy, in your face jerks exist on both sides of the homosexual debate. How is as important as why, especially if your intention is to convert someone to change.”

    Here I actually agree with you except that my intentions are not really important. As an agent of the Holy Spirit, I can only follow his lead and he never leads into darkness.

    Pat, I’m concerned that you yourself may not be saved. Have you accepted Jesus as your LORD and SAVIOR? Have you read the bible? Do you believe what the bible says? No one can judge another persons heart, this is for the Lord, but the bible does teach us that we can “tell by their fruit”, and frankly Pat, I’m not eating from your tree.

    “Good Luck,”
    There is no need for luck with Jesus

    in the fields


  36. jen-o, 07 December, 2007

    thank you for taking the time to look up the scripture that had eluded me… :~)

    thank you for your bold and blunt post… :~)

    some people have the erroneous impression that “christianity” is some namby-pamby, nicey-nice, wishy-washy, feel-good kind of religion… it is NOT… christianity is about TRUTH… and again i repeat, Jesus said: “I AM the way, THE TRUTH, and the life”… Jesus and the Truth are synonymous… so christianity is about Jesus, who IS the Truth!

    but, the Truth is not always pleasant… ex. some people are going to spend an eternity in hell… that is not pleasant, but that is the Truth!… some people think that “good deeds and kindness” will get you to heaven… it will NOT!… there is no quantity of good deeds that will allow oneself to earn his/her way into heaven… maybe that is not a pleasant thought for some, but it IS the Truth…

    as warren has pointed out, God uses very strong language and HE is the Judge… christians do not condemn people, we WARN people because we understand the WRATH of God…

    it’s true, our God is a God of Love, but our God is also a God of Justice… (and we would not want an UNJUST God)… but knowing the wrath of the Living God, we WARN people that there is a way to escape the wrath that is to come…

    i see that you have avoided my question… to wit, “do you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior OR do you reject HIM?”
    [others have asked you the same question]… is this a difficult question for you?… why do you refuse to answer it??

    it’s all good and well to hear about your grandmother, but i was raised by my grandmother, too… she was an italian (okay sicilian) roman catholic who went to church MORE THAN once a week, and did many, many good deeds… generously giving money to help others, taking into her house the less fortunate who lived with her for months (or years) at a time, always helping people, etc. etc…. i’m sure my grandmother could certainly hold a candle to yours… (all of us on this site have family members like this) but that is NOT the point… all the good deeds my grandmother did will NOT get her into heaven… if she did not accept Jesus as her personal Lord and Savior, she is destined for hell… that IS the Truth, unpleasant as it may seem to you… for we are saved by FAITH, NOT WORKS (good deeds, acts of kindness, etc. etc.)… we are saved by FAITH so that no one can BOAST about all the good deeds they have done… Jesus’ actions are the actions that count, NOT ours… our own actions (however good in the eyes of mankind, and in whatever quantity) can NEVER get us to heaven… i had given you the link to ray comfort’s site (way of the master) back last may and told you that he could explain all of this far better than i could… i would again suggest you take a look at his site…

    as for people encouraging you to read the bible, somehow you think that is not necessary… you prefer to read all around it (who said what, and what was the history, etc.) rather than reading the very words of the Lord; the words that are ALIVE and POWERFUL, so powerful that by HIS very Word, God created the whole universe… you’d rather know the “history” instead of knowing the POWER of the LIVING WORDS of the LIVING GOD??… you’d rather know what men say rather than what the LIVING GOD SAYS??

    when we as christians WARN you, you think we are judgemental?… call me whatever name you like, i will not be silenced, and i will not stop warning people…

    FYI (to all the new posters):
    pat and some of the rest of us here have been having this very same conversation since last may (over 6 months now)… pat has not changed her position, and neither have we… it all started on a “hate crimes” news thread which had about 100 posts on it… perhaps someone could find the link (i’m not good at that kind of stuff (LOL) but at least then we wouldn’t have to reinvent the wheel (LOL) since many of these things have been said before)

    shalom to all,

  37. Remnant, 07 December, 2007

    For those who see themselves as having the ability to save themselves.The next time you look in a mirror remember this:

    Is. 64:4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
    Is. 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
    Is. 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

    Also read Romans chapter 3

    Jen-O the thread, one of many
    is House passes expanded hate crime bill

    In Messiah

  38. Linda, 07 December, 2007

    dear jen-o,
    you have just preached a powerful word!! maybe it didn’t convert pat, but i just had church right here in my living room while reading your post!
    if more pastors would be as forthright, there would be far less people falling prey to the deceptions of satan.

    btw, here’s that hate crime article you mentioned:

    i pray, in Christ Jesus name, that pat & her cousin will both come to the saving knowledge of Jesus & receive HIM as their Savior & LORD.

    may the 7 Spirits who are before HIS throne bless you all with grace & peace;
    the Spirit of the LORD
    the Spirit of wisdom
    the Spirit of understanding
    the Spirit of counsel
    the Spirit of might
    the Spirit of knowledge
    the Spirit of the fear of the LORD

  39. jen-o, 08 December, 2007

    hey linda,

    that is tooo funny… ROFLOL, and i mean really laughing out loud… you made my day (LOL) my father always says: you should have been a preacher (heehee) and why don’t you become a preacher; you need a podium, etc. etc… it is sooo funny!… sometimes, my kids tell me: we don’t have to go to church; we have YOU (LOL), we have to listen to you everyday; living with you is like being in church, etc. etc…. i dunno, maybe you have to be there, maybe i’m the only one that sees the humor in it all… i just think it’s sooo funny…

    you should see me when i’m really on a roll (LOLOL) like those hour long conversations i have with my father on the phone, or when i’m with my kids and their friends (i just don’t shut up)… i’m like a bulldog that won’t let go (heehee) but i’ll tell ya those friends are starting to come to me with questions (as do my own kids), and that (previously) stiff-necked, hard-headed italian father of mine NEVER says anything negative about God and Jesus anymore…

    ((linda)) and ((remnant)),
    you both know that you are dear to my heart, and i thank God that i have wonderful brothers and sisters like you… thank you both for posting that link…

    and now, for your spiritual edification :~), i am posting a link that reveals the Glory of God in His awesome creation… i have watched this a couple of times, and i have not analysed the words on it… in fact, i have looked past the words to the photography that points to the awesome creation of our God (the words really are irrelevant)… the main focus is the magnificent beauty and variety and power and glory that is revealed in God’s creation… how can anyone believe there is no God when creation itself testifies of HIM?… and what more can i say, except that if such beauty and glory is revealed on earth, how much more will be revealed in heaven!!

    p.s. don’t be distracted by the words, just look at the awesome creation…

    shalom to all,
    and God Bless,

  40. jen-o, 08 December, 2007

    oops, sorry… wrong link!
    i left out a word…

    here is the correct link:


  41. jen-o, 08 December, 2007

    hey, maybe that wasn’t such a “wrong” link… i checked it out and they, too, have some pretty good mini-movies with beautiful landscape photographs of God’s creation (and the words are much better)… :~)

    as for my original link, just click on “view presentation”…

    shalom to all,
    and God Bless,

  42. Dillion, 02 April, 2009

    I have a few sites I go to, but the quality is always the best here!

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